Asked to take in 5 children if parents tragically die

[Crossfitgirl]

So DH and I got asked this some time ago and I'm genuinely interested to see what other people would have done in the same situation, as it came up in conversation at work recently and there was some debate!

A family member and her DH were sorting out a will and rang me to ask if, in the unlikely event both of them died, would we take in their 5 children.

At the time they were all under the age of 10. (18 months, 3, 4, 6 and 8). They were specific in that they would not want the children splitting up, it would have to be all 5 together. 1 of the children also has special needs.

To give context, we aren't massively close to this family member (as in wouldn't choose to socialise together etc) however we are what you would consider "close family" and see them a handful of times a year at birthdays, Christmas etc. and we would definitely have a sense of responsibility towards them.

At the time DH and I were living in a 1 bed terrace, no kids of our own however were thinking of starting a family of our own in the next couple of years. We both work full time and have good jobs.

We obviously gave this very serious thought and consideration before giving our answer and felt honoured that we had been asked.

But we also felt it was a very huge thing to ask which also would have very obvious life changing implications for us and our own future.

But they do have other family who see the children much more regularly, the kids are more familiar with etc in terms of thinking what's best for the children.

So I'm interested - what would you have done?

I'd also love to hear if anyone has asked the same / similar of anyone else, and what your thoughts were at the time?

I'd have said no.

We already have 5DC of our own and myself and 2 of our DC are disabled.

I think what they asked of you is a massive ask especially as you had no children of your own.

A relative was looking into adopting & asked myself and dh if we would be happy to be put down as guardians in the event of their death. We said no: various reasons including my relative and partner being much older than us (therefore possibility of dying less remote), prospective child would be likely to have additional psychological needs which would have been exacerbated by losing their adoptive parents & which could impact on our own dc. We did take the time to consider this, and tbh it was made easier by the child being only hypothetical. (they didn't adopt in the end which was probably just as well as their marriage broke down a couple of years later.

My sister is down in our will as guardian for my 2 dc. She already has children who know mine well, and we have made good financial provision through life insurance etc.

We've asked this of a close relative. We've also stipulated in our will that our estate is divided 3 ways two thirds in trust for our children to have at 21 and 1/3 to the relative. We acknowledge that two extra children will mean bigger house/car more expensive holidays and that money is to pay for the extra or maybe for an au pair if that's helpful. We didn't leave it all to her as we didn't want her to be be financially responsible forever. They will have money each to pay house deposits etc if required.

It would be a yes if I was asked but I am a foster carer and love kids so I am used to a houseful. I have 5 of my own anyway .

If DH and I were to both die we are well insured and would both have death in service payments. With the sale of our house, it would amount to a lot of money.

Most of this we left to the people named to take care of DS. The proportion left to them decreases.each year as DS gets older to take into account the fewer years they will need to support DS (He is 14 now) . The rest of the estate is in trust for DS for them to manaage on his behalf until he is in his mid 20s. If you are asking someone to take care of your child, a good chunk of your estate ( the vast majority of your child is very young) should go directly to them to cover any associated expenses. If.you can't trust them to use the money wisely and in the long-term best interests of your child, you probably need another guardian

@GiveMeFiveMinutes oh no I totally agree, as I say I wouldn't do it (unless they literally had no where else to go) it wouldn't be fair to my own children, I won't even have my own 3rd as I don't think it would be fair to them lol. Just saying the financial side is one that can be negotiated before if done carefully (emphasis on carefully!)

I would struggle with 5 children though and would probably only take that many if close to the family and fond of the children to begin with.

@Aeroflotgirl we said no.
At work, when it came up the other day a couple of people said we should have just said yes as its "the thing to do".
A friend said the same and that even if I didn't intend to follow through, I should have still said yes! (they weren't to know if they weren't there!!!)
But if it were my kids I was asking someone else to look after, I would be mortified to think they would say yes but not mean it without giving me the opportunity to make other arrangements instead.

Anyways it got me thinking whether we did the right thing. I think we did.

In hindsight though, I think if they had sat down properly with us and discussed it, practicalities and finances and provisions, perhaps we could have actually worked something out.
Or perhaps we could have said yes to be legal guardians to acting in their best interests at the time, rather than just agreeing to take them all in.
Maybe we could have taken some but not all, if she wanted another family member to step in and take the others that lived close by etc.

They were totally fine with our answer and were glad we'd been honest. We actually never found out what they ended up deciding, they never mentioned it again and since we hardly ever see them anyway!

We said yes for two siblings dc and one of them returned the favor for us. It is very unlikely to be needed but best sorted. However if you cannot make it work for you then don't feel guilty about saying no.

I have been asked and did say yes - but only 2 children who we see regularly and are very close to.

We have asked someone the same question but only have one DC. As do they, they wanted more but for various reasons cannot. they were very happy to oblige.

I’d have said yes. They obviously think you’d be good parents which is what counts. We originally had an aunt and uncle in will when children born and they were all honoured and excited etc but then they showed v little interest in children in first few years of their lives. and we had v. CLose friends with children who showed what good parents they are so changed it to them and they put us in their will. It’s v unlikely to happen but I wanted to know if it did the guardians would be good people and parents. Maybe that’s what your relatives saw in you.

I don't think asking anyone to take on all 5 children is a reasonable request TBH.

smoggle is right and just because it's in the will doesn't mean it has to happen if it's not in the child's best interest. It's best to choose people you trust to make the best decision for your children, as their needs will change at each age. For older teens staying at the same school would be important so moving to you may not be best etc .they can't ask this of you and then expect you not to move or have more children incase you need to take in an extra 5!

You did the right thing. Although they are close family in terms of blood, they are not close family in terms of day to day stuff, which is important. You gave them the opportunity to sort out something else, that’s fine.

coffeeismyspinach

Which is why I said if there were life insurance policies in place to financially take care of the children.

We agreed to be named in my sister's will. If the worst had happened it would have meant another 4 children added to our three, which would have been a nightmare logistically, especially as they live at the other side of the country, but I couldn't have seen them go into care, and there were no other appropriate relatives.

Happily it hasn't arisen and they are all grown up now.

They can't make you. The social services will take over automatically. It's not up to the parents.

you did the right thing IMO. we said yes to my sister's request (she only has one) and even that we discussed that for quite a while as her DC is much younger than ours and they have a diff racial mix to our kids which would be potentially comment-worthy by others. it's not just about finances - 5 kids potentially means giving up work/changing your entire lifestyle.

@coffeeismyspinach "the tax credits are gone now" Really? Should I be contacting them to let them know? As they are still putting money in weekly.....

Isn't it funny that some very against the idea are asking about impact on lifestyle. I guess those of us already at the bottom of the barrel have an easier time imagining not being entitled to a fabulous life, and know how important just being there is even if we can't afford to give our kids long haul holidays and expensive toys. Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I THINK I'd agree if they'd made some financial provisions for the DC (at least life insurance, it's mad not to have that when you have a family).

We're the only people in our family with DC (two) and we struggled with which sibling to ask to be their guardian, as, tbh, we didn't think any of them would really want to do it or would bring them up the way we wanted! We love our families, but we're all v. different people.

Anyway, we ended up asking BIL and his wife - they said yes. I think DH's elder sister was slightly offended that she wasn't asked, but she and especially her DH have made past decisions that DH and I thought were crazy (like not going to A & E after an accident and nearly dying of an infection as a result ) so we can't let them raise our children!

Plus, BIL is good with money and we've made financial provisions with life insurance, etc. so that side is sorted out.

I'm glad mine are nearly 14 & 11, though, as I don't think any family members would really want them, including the GP's, who make v. little effort. It's sad really, not how I thought things would be .

@coffeeismyspinach "the tax credits are gone now" Really? Should I be contacting them to let them know? As they are still putting money in weekly.....

Nice try at sarcasm, not very funny at all to claimants being moved onto Universal Credit (which 10,000 more will be in July, to be decided by the government, no idea who, possibly arbitrary) and certainly will not be to you when you, like everyone who is now on tax credits will be by 2023 at the latest. And, btw, you don't need to let them know! If you experience a triggering change in circumstances, the DWP will do this for you! So kind of them! You'll be sent a letter saying you're being moved to UC, no money for five weeks at a minimum. Possibly more. Hard to know. AND, the icing on the cake, many, many who have been moved onto UC or have had to apply for UC have also found out, whaddya know, the HMRC have decided/found that they were overpaid tax credits in the past! So now they owe the HMRC money, to be clawed back from, you guessed it!, your UC entitlement!

So instead of scolding people on the internet and assuming you're morally superior to them because they cannot possibly know what's like to be at the bottom of the barrel and therefore unable to magic up money to support 5 extra kids, I strongly recommend you devote some time to researching UC and how it will affect you because one of the first things you'd discover is that there are no tax credits for new claimants (or existing ones taking in kids): it's all UC now. And a significant number of former tax credits claimants stand to lose a rather substantial amount of entitlement under UC, and taking in more kids is definitely a triggering circumstance for being moved onto a UC.

You're welcome!

coffeeismyspinach

Oh and tax credits aren't gone yet.

It's about not being able to feed, clothe and house 5 additional kids, FA about toys and holidays . A LOT of people simply cannot afford to support 5 extra kids. Imagine that?

Isn't it funny that some very against the idea are asking about impact on lifestyle. I guess those of us already at the bottom of the barrel have an easier time imagining not being entitled to a fabulous life, and know how important just being there is even if we can't afford to give our kids long haul holidays and expensive toys. Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I'm one of the folk who mentioned impact on lifestyle and it had nothing to do with money and everything to do with day-to-day life - e.g. I got up this morning and did a workout DVD while my DS sorted his own breakfast and then we all went to see a film (at kids club so a total cost of £6 for the 4 of us) that we all enjoyed. if i had 5 extra kids to look after that wouldn't have been how this morning went!

Oh and tax credits aren't gone yet.

Oh, and they are for new claimants and those experiencing a triggering change in circumstance. As of December, 2018, all UK councils are now full service UC areas. By March of 2023, all claims will be UC. In May of this year, pensioners who were in the past eligible to claim Pension Tax Credit but who are married to or have a partner who is of working age will have to make a joint claim for UC. No more new claims for even Pension Tax Credit. If you are low income and in receipt of tax credits and take in 5 kids, or even 1, you will be moved to UC.

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