Bloody Sunday prosecution

[Somerville]

Only one man will be prosecuted for murdering civilians at the Bloody Sunday civil rights march.

The long-delayed inquiry found that all the killings were unjustified, that every adult and child who was killed had been unarmed, and that no warnings were gven before soldiers opened fire.

British justice at it's finest, eh?

Not in the GFA referendums, but you could make a case that they were given an opportunity to vote (or not) for political parties that backed the GFA.

I'm not sure that we all knew the details of the GFA when we voted though did we? Maybe the victims and families of the victims were consulted about the terms - I doubt it though.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the GFA. I certainly don't disagree with prosecuting the soldiers involved, but it has to go further and prosecute those higher up too.

I think it's wrong though to ignore the fact that many families, who were affected by terrorism, have been denied justice.

Indeed BeGood - Republican AND loyalist terrorists benefited from the GFA early release from prison.

It gets overlooked a lot.

Weetabix, I think your bias is showing, with the whole 'mainland' thing, and your convenient forgetting of the existence of loyalist paramilitaries.

I am not biased at all, apologies if you think that. I extend my distaste for early release of terrorists across all factions, including loyalist paramilitaries.

My experiences of living in London were of the IRA.

I think it's wrong though to ignore the fact that many families, who were affected by terrorism, have been denied justice.

Who’s ignoring it? This thread is about the Bloody Sunday prosecutions. Please do start one about how unfair the GFA prisoner releases were, or the inadequacies of the HET. I’m sure you’ll get lots of thoughtful contributions.

My experiences of living in London were of the IRA.

So were mine, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of remembering the existence of loyalist paramilitaries.

another who lived through IRA terrorism in London for years.

Doesn't mean I have rose-tinted glasses about loyalist terrorist groups, or the British Army in Ulster - I also have Northern Irish Catholic friends.

LadyGregorysToothbrush

I understand what the thread is about but why is it wrong to discuss soldiers being held to account for their actions and victims and their families being given justice whilst also remembering that there are families of victims of the terrorism who weren't given justice?

Because it’s whataboutery

As for murderers being set free, yes some were, and the people of the Island of Ireland understood that more than any of us on this side of the Irish sea, they voted for the GFA.

I am not arrogant enough to think that I know better than a relative of someone murdered, or someone maimed, these are the people who voted for the agreement that brought peace.

I commented on this statement. I responded to an idea that had already been introduced by someone else on this thread.

How is responding to a statement what aboutery?

maybe Weetabix and get together with imiss and start a thread about that instead of continually derailing this one. I mean, I would have expected posters who feel this way to have done so already but I'm guessing an advanced search would bring up squat.

Weetabixandshreddies imagine this was a thread about violence against women and someone popped up and said but what about the men?

The thread wasn't about men though violence against anyone is to be condemned, but anyone joining and starting to discuss violence against men would be still engaging in whataboutey even if they didn't bring it up.

Weetabix is exactly the kind of poster who would do that, Flavia. Plenty of form on MN.

FlaviaAlbia
So in a thread about violence against women, if someone posted something like "men don't understand because they never experience domestic violence" would it be whataboutery to point out that statement is wrong?

Or should that statement be left to stand unchallenged and another thread started to challenge it?

Not talking about men who experience DV isn't the same as ignoring it though. It's just the conversation is focused on a different issue.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino ah, I see. Thanks.

A 12 year old boy was murdered in Warrington by the IRA. Many people were murdered or badly injured during the troubles. There’s blood on a lot of people’s hands.

Actions should have consequences. Nobody should escape justice in the name of peace. 95 individuals linked to 300 murders were told they wouldn’t be pursued or investigated further. I don’t call that justice.

This former soldier at the moment is the accused. It’s for the court to examine the evidence and decide if that evidence is strong enough for a conviction. I know some of you would like this anonymous former soldier thrown in jail without a trial but fortunately that’s not how it works.

Oh and at no time have I said that the British army should be able to do what they want.

Almondfinger my affiliation is with all the innocent victims of violent men and women. Is that so wrong?

When people were killed by paramilitaries those offences were condemned publically and there was a police investigation and people were arrested and prosecuted. (Or sometimes held without trial or in trumped up, fake evidence if they were Catholic )

The difference between all that and Bloody Sunday is that these murders were never condemned, never investigated and no-one faced justice. Until now. When we have one person.

Anyone stupid enough to call the slightly bigger island the mainland isn’t going to understand the real issues here, though, are they?

And anyone who thinks early release of terrorists is affording victims' families justice will never understand either.

I know some of you would like this anonymous former soldier thrown in jail without a trial but fortunately that’s not how it works.

Fuck off.

Seriously, fuck off.

Internment of suspected Republicans without trial was what members of my family were out marching about on Bloody Sunday. We wanted the rule of law to apply equally to us as to other citizens. For our lives to be of equal value under the law. Not to overthrow the rule of law and have everyone subject to internment. The brave families who have kept up their campaign for justice for over 40 years have never sought anything except for the rule of law to be applied to the soldiers who killed their fathers/sons.

You’re not a victim, Weetabix, so why are you speaking for them?

No I’m not going to Fuck off.

No one should have been interned without trial. Of course justice should be equal and for everyone, including this soldier.

@Imissgmichael
But you accused me/us of wanting this anonymous former soldier thrown in jail without a trial. You said I know some of you would like that. I’ve reread this thread throroughly and cannot find even one clumsy sentence which could be construed as such. Please note where you read it, or apologise. In the context of murders of peaceful protesters at a civil rights march against internment it is a highly offensive and incredibly upsetting accusation that you made.

You’re not a victim, Weetabix, so why are you speaking for them?

No thank god I'm not. I was at Harrods though as a young teen when the bomb went off. The horror of that day won't ever leave. Am I not allowed to want anyone responsible for that to be brought to justice?

Somerville I received criticism for saying if he’s guilty so yes some on here have already made their minds up even before the trial and even though the former soldiers identity is unknown. So no I’m not going to apologise.

I have at no time argued that it wasn’t a civil rights march by peaceful protesters and the killings were justified. I’d just like the evidence relating to this particular former soldier tested by a court. I’d also like all the other soldiers to account for their actions in court. I find it very difficult to believe they have no evidence against any of the other soldiers.

No thank god I'm not. I was at Harrods though as a young teen when the bomb went off. The horror of that day won't ever leave. Am I not allowed to want anyone responsible for that to be brought to justice?

That is a terrible event for anyone to experience. But, perhaps try and imagine what it is like to live in a place we’re your local police or the Military that patrol the streets outside you’re home could shoot you or you’re family anytime they liked and nothing would be done about it.