I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

I would every single day of the week and if my kid fell out with me then so be it.

My god you know nothing do you?

When I told my husband about my experiences of CSA, many years after they happened, do you think he immediately ran to the police? Or do you think I told him I'm nowhere near ready to even consider that, and to just be there for me? And my abuser isn't the most powerful, famous man in the world. It's hard enough going up against ordinary men, imagine going up against the like of Jackson

I have posted videos, facts and documents

The video you posted was an mish-mash of random people giving heir opinion on Jackson and clips of him performing. It proves nothing.

I haven't seen you post any facts that debunk anything in the Neverland documentary

You've posted screen grabs of unreliable information.

For your own sake I suggest you go away and learn what the following mean:
Grooming
Not guilty
Evidence
Statute of limitations

Gunpowder - I recall this poster declaring themselves a fan of MJ on another thread.

As the saying goes 'you can't educate pork'.

The superfandom is ire inducing - utter waste of time trying to converse with it.

I believe Wade and James. To me the most damming evidence came from MJ himself who admitted sharing a bed alone with underage, unrelated boys.

Okay I’ll you win I’m done. It’s like banging your head against brick wall. I’m just gonna do what the others have done and this and other threads and let you get on with it. You’ve already made your mind up and you’ll always have an excuse lined up for every inaccuracies pointed out in their stories. That’s all they are is stories and they tarnish the name of genuine abuse victims who have genuine stories to tell. That’s a shame.

Csa victims have PERSONAL ACCOUNTS of abuse not 'genuine stories', like you give a shit about csa victims anyway.

Oh look, here's Oprah Winfrey "distancing herself" from the Leaving Neverland documentary yesterday: www.google.com/amp/s/uk.movies.yahoo.com/amphtml/oprah-stands-leaving-neverland-interview-despite-reports-timeline-discrepancy-071231762.html

Have all the many CSA victims who dont believe the victims accounts shown up yet?

Csa victims have PERSONAL ACCOUNTS of abuse not 'genuine stories', like you give a shit about csa victims anyway.

His words, not mine.

In another note, dated August 2013 – five months after filing the lawsuit — Robson, who was vying to be a meditation teacher, typed: 'My story of abuse and its effects will make me relatable/relevant.'

Oh look, here's Oprah Winfrey "distancing herself" from the Leaving Neverland documentary yesterday: www.google.com/amp/s/uk.movies.yahoo.com/amphtml/oprah-stands-leaving-neverland-interview-despite-reports-timeline-discrepancy-071231762.html

Well she removed it all from her social media, was called out for it, then the next day this appears. Hmm....I stand by what I posted, again!

In another note, dated August 2013 – five months after filing the lawsuit — Robson, who was vying to be a meditation teacher, typed: 'My story of abuse and its effects will make me relatable/relevant.'

And? What does this prove?

No of course we are not going to change our minds because you've presented zero facts or doubt on this case, just random things about sentences Wade Robson has spoken now and again. Do you think you've actually put a good case forward? Be honest

And I'm yet to see a compelling inaccuracy you've pointed out

And? What does this prove?

Nothing. It was in response to HowlsMovingBungalow kicking offer because I used the word story instead of personal account, when one of the alleged victims himself used the same word to describe the same thing.

As inaccuracy, they are all pretty much here. Can't be bothered to argue anymore. If these guys came out tomorrow and said, we lied, you would still make an excuse for it as to why they did that. It's pointless. Read if you want to, I doubt you will, you've made your mind up.

www.reddit.com/r/MichaelJackson/comments/ay42cx/a_condensed_version_of_the_major_credibility/

You've already admitted you didn't know Robson is on his 4th version of events since 2013. He's changed his story 4 times....FOUR!

Since filing their lawsuit, both men have repeatedly changed their stories, frequently telling directly contradictory versions of the same supposed events. For example, Wade Robson has told at least four directly contradictory stories about the first time Jackson supposedly abused him.

The judge didn't throw out his claim because it was too late, he threw it out because he saw Robson had lied under oath again on his most recent claim and with that dismissed the case. You still want to make excuses for this?

All of this is just part of the reason people don't believe based on the evidence that is out there. Some have just chosen to look no further than what Reed, Robson and Safechuck wanted them to believe.

Have all the many CSA victims who dont believe the victims accounts shown up yet?

I didn't say many, I said there was some that posted here and some I have spoken to in person. If I remember right, wasn't TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge one of the people who had been abused and still asking questions of the accusers as they didn't believe them. They haven't posted in this thread yet, but it's an example you so dearly beg....

Do you think you've actually put a good case forward? Be honest

You know what? I think they genuinely think they have put a good case forward. I don't think they are able to grasp the difference between the erroneous crap they post and actual evidence.

I am liking 'you can't argue with pork' very much BTW. Very "opt".

See, what I don't get is - these people keep attempting to discredit the accounts of the two men on the basis that they can prove that, at some point, they lied about something. The argument seems to be that because they lied about one (or more) thing/s, they are lying about everything else as well, including the abuse.

Yet there is absolute proof that MJ also lied about certain things (and very easily too)- his drug use and his plastic surgery for example. So, if we were to go by the same logic they apply to Robson and Safechuck, why do they believe MJ was not lying when he claimed he was not an abuser? After all, we know he's lied before so why should we believe anything else he ever said, right?

Anyway, I think that a lot more about all this is going to come out over the next few years, and that the whole family will implode when MJ's Mother has passed and no longer able to buy the silence and loyalty of certain family members. I also think Janet Jackson's silence on it all is ominous. You'd think if if she genuinely believed her late brother was the target of malicious accusations and lies she'd feel compelled to say at least something is his defence, surely?

MJ lied about things not related to the abuse. These two have lied directly about the abuse. It's not the same thing.

I didn't know Robson actually considered divorcing his wife because she thought him writing and trying to sell his book was a bad idea. What a jerk!

Yes I know, just because I think he's a jerk, doesn't mean the abuse didn't happen.....before you say it.

erroneous crap they post and actual evidence

Example? Actual evidence has been posted. You've chosen to ignore it, doesn't mean it never happened.

Oh god this has to be a parody of a really demented superfan now surely?! Hilarious!

MJ did lie about the abuse because he said he didn't do it when anyone with half a brain can see he did.

But even if you don't believe that - being a serial liar shows your character surely as completely untrustworthy...at least according to you re Wade Robson, so I assume you apply the same principals to MJ?

I've read the bullets on the Reddit link you posted - yet again not a single actual scrap of evidence - just "he said this but someone else said that" and "Here's an email about Cirque due Soliel" - proves nothing.

And you're wrong about the statute of limitations. Look it up. The judge did not rule on credibility of these men's evidence

You've already admitted you didn't know Robson is on his 4th version of events since 2013. He's changed his story 4 times....FOUR!

I didn't "admit" anything. You stated this, I said I hadn't heard that and despite me asking you haven't posted details or sources to this claim so pardon me while I take it with a massive pinch of salt. Do you think posting words on a forum make them true? Michael Jackson abused 742 boys. Hey, don't look at me for sources or proof of that random accusation, take my word for it. That's how it works, yeah?

Like I said look up the word "evidence" it does not mean what you think it means

I have a few questions for the people who still believe he was innocent - MJ had a huge team around him and endless resources, after the first allegation either no one advised him not to share a bed with young boys again or he chose to ignore that advice, why was that? If he really was childlike and naive one of his many advisers needed to explain to him that he was leaving himself open to more allegations, having been through the terrible traumatic experience of being interviewed and photographed, his house being searched he would want to avoid that happening again wouldn't he? So why did he continue with his sleepovers unsupervised? Were his team really so inept that no one told him that was not a good idea and was he too naive to work that out for himself or did he believe himself to be above the law? If he was innocent would he not want to avoid putting himself in a position where he could be accused of inappropriate behaviour again? Even if he could not bear the thought of not having his little "friends" around him at all times he had the option of one of his staff staying in the room with them but he chose not to do that, what could be the reason for that?

So signed court documents are not evidence? On what planet?

themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2017-06-26-estate-notice-of-summary-judgement-redacted-wm1.pdf

Wow Gunpowder, you so desperately want this to be true.

You will see in that document, it states that the claimant is on his 4th amended complaint. You will also see that Judge Beckloff dismissed Robson's claims against the estate. Robson claimed that he didn't know about MJ's estate, hence the delay in putting the complaint in. That's not possible considering he was at the funeral and was a close family friend. As such the judge considered him to be lying under oath, again.

MJ did lie about the abuse because he said he didn't do it when anyone with half a brain can see he did.

You have proof of this do you? If he was truly guilty of abuse he would have been put in prison. The FBI and the prosecution would have found something, a smoking gun, something.

He was weird and lied about a lot of things. But there is a massive line between lying about cosmetic surgery and lying about kiddie fiddling.

MJ had a huge team around him and endless resources, after the first allegation either no one advised him not to share a bed with young boys again or he chose to ignore that advice, why was that?

How do you know they didn't? With such a massive team around him and such much abuse that went on every night, allegedly, surely someone would have seen or found something. The only ones that ever claimed to do so were found to be lying and/or after money. Some believe that is another reason why they think he is innocent, he never changed his ways or amended how he interacted with children. Despite advice to contrary, and knowing people would be watching or looking for things. Of course it was ill-advised.

MJ lied about things not related to the abuse. These two have lied directly about the abuse. It's not the same thing.

Is this a serious comment? Well, how bloody convenient that is! Why on earth would you assume MJ was telling the truth and the two men lying? After all, MJ had far more to lose by telling the truth about being a paedophile than those two men would ever have to gain by making the abuse up. They stand to lose far more than they would ever gain by inventing it - their reputation, their privacy, their safety, their family's safety. Where is your logic?

`You are seriously saying that MJ pretty much lied about everything EXCEPT the one thing that actually mattered, and would have lost him everything if he didn't lie?

When it comes to MJ and his accuser, there is only evidence, scientific evidence at that, that one of them is a liar. And that is MJ. Unless of course you want to argue with the autopsy results. You seem to like scientific proof don't you - in fact the lack of it is one of the main reasons you said you don't believe the abuse claims.

Again, we have scientific proof MJ was a liar. Show me your 'scientific' proof Wade was lying. Note btw - evidence of a less than perfect memory regarding times/ dates of (especially historical) events is not evidence of that. On the contrary, it is almost inevitable. But forgetting that you are taking drugs, or have had multiple cosmetic procedures at the current time, or recently, and subsequent evidence of drugs within the body and long term use - Yep, that is actual, proveable LIES.

The only ones that ever claimed to do so were found to be lying and/or after money.

Who? What people are these? Where has it been proved they were lying? By whom?

Some believe that is another reason why they think he is innocent, he never changed his ways or amended how he interacted with children.

In what way would that suggest he is innocent? To me it would show the following:

a) He is incredibly naive or stupid?

b) He is an arrogant, sociopathic, pathological liar and paedophile who believed (rightly!) that he was above the law and could buy people's silence.

Hmmmm - now let me think - which one could the intelligent, media savvy, multi million dollar making highly successful and self driven businessman MJ have been?

If he was truly guilty of abuse he would have been put in prison.

Like OJ Simpson was for murder you mean? You believe that every guilty person is found guilty do you? I just hope you're not from the U, I really do..

Why have you posted that? What is it supposed to prove? That there are a load of really strange people out that who don't understand what the word 'evidence' means?

Or was it just for some of us to watch and once again be very pleased that that vile, revolting paedophile is now dead and unable to destroy any more lives?

*U = UK