I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

It is possible that the higher profile boys (e.g. Macaulay Culkin) were quite deliberately not abused. MJ was a manipulator. By not abusing the high profile boys he was able to hide his abuse of the lower profile boys. High profile boys saying nothing happened discredits claims by low profile boys.

Also Culkin is the Godfather to Jackson's kids, he is particularly close to Paris. If he were to come forward with any kind of murky recollections now, it would probably destroy the young girl and he will be very unwilling to do that.

There's a man called Omar Bhatti who lived with Jackson from being a teen to when he died. Prince Jackson manages his singing career now. He's another one you have to wonder about. And what did his kids make of these boys who were always at the house with their father?? Its just incredible.

Re-reading the lyrics to some of Jackson's songs now shows them in a completely new light.. It's such a shame because he was a sensational talent.

I also noticed on the documentary when they were interviewing the jury that they all seemed like Jackson fans and the part where the older woman said one of the prosecutors waved her fingers at them and she didnt like it. She almost insinuated that was one of the reasons she voted not guilty.

And of course MJ didnt abuse the celebrity children he needed them on his side if anything ever did come out. Worked out very well for him. A peodophile does not abuse every single child they come into contact with. Just the same as a murderer doesnt murder every person they meet. They pick them out.

Between MJ and R Kelly; Disney imagery is becoming to make me queasy.
In particular RK wearing matching disney hat and shirt with Aliya and endless footage of MJ wandering round the Magic kingdom looking like a Walker from the walking dead who's got trapped on a ride, it's face sliding off....
We were all deluded and we all feel angry at the betrayal. We fell for the shit and ignored our instincts.

MJ is an example of why paedophiles will always be successful because they are experts o how to get past all our surveillance systems. They know there is a lot of work to be done convincing a lot of people that they are quite harmless.

Something that still really upsets me when I think about it is during the Oprah interview when Wade recalls waking up one night and seeing Jackson curled up crying. In his 7 yr old mind, he thought Jackson might have been turning into the monster on the Thriller video. His vulnerability really hits home.
Jackson didn't give a fuck about children. Its all he talked about, and it was the biggest lie. Shocking.

Tenpennyyes I thought that too
How young Wade was only 7 years old 😨

And like the thought process of wade thinking mj was about to turn into the monster on the thriller video

I do find it very hard to understand what the parents where thinking

I do think the parent's behaviour does seem bizarre too. But then they were being groomed by a superstar and also his entire family and team who surrounded him and assured them of the normalcy of the situation because MJ was so childlike and special.

I do think it seems closer to being drawn into a cult - where boundaries were eroded, MJ was elevated to God like status and there was a whole culture around him that made soothing noises about his "idiosyncrasies".

One of the bits I found strangely most upsetting was when they were talking about how the felt when MJ dropped them like a stone for a 'new' boy. Imagine how crushed and totally confused they must have felt. Like when you are that age, falling out with your friend for a day feels like the end of the world, they must have been so hurt, so let down and so confused after everything they had done with him, and everything he had said to them.

And MJ just didnt give a shit. It just shows the extent to which he didn't care about the boys. All this paedo crap, 'but paedophiles truly do love children, it can be a loving relationship like any other' MJs behaviour shows this to be total bullshit. As soon as a new toy came along, the old ones were forgotten. He didn't 'love' those boys, he wasn't interested in their friendship because he had had to 'grow up quickly' himself or whatever. He groomed them so that he could carry out his sick abuse on them and they wouldn't tell anyone. He knew what he was doing and he only cared about himself.

What an absolute piece of shit. How fucking dare he do that.

I am raging actually, partly at myself for bloody bopping along to his music all this time, even though there was so much out there about him. Hearing it all so clearly when watching it has been very sobering.

We watched Abducted In Plain Sight the other week, and in comparison the parents in Leaving Neverland seem downright protective, but yes, it's crazy what they allowed isn't it.

MJ was around 30 when those parents let their kids sleep in with him. But I think grooming is an incredibly powerful tool, and it's probably hard to put ourselves in their position, where this superstar is taking such an interest in them and their family and making them feel so special, and they are seeing this childlike seemingly man who their kids just absolutely adore.... I still can't imagine ever letting my kids bunk in alone with a 30 year old bloke who I don't even know that well but maybe I can see how it happened?

Wade's Mum in particular seemed like quite a pushy stage mom. Actually they showed some footage of Wade as a kid dancing in stage to claps and cheers and talking about how he loved doing what he was doing and his mum saying the same etc and it was eerily reminiscent of the 'drag kid' Desmond Is Amazing, but that's probably for another thread.

This isn't the point I know but I have major issues with the concept of 'child stars'. I know that children are needed in films and tv but I can't help thinking that it isn't right to proclaim them as 'child stars' or try to make them so. Once filming is over they should be allowed to return to normal life. I don't think it's appropriate or healthy for them to be constantly in the media. I know that some parents do a good job of keeping them grounded and putting their welfare first(Mara Wilson's parents appeared to have done just that) but so many don't and the industry often takes little responsibility either.

I'd also say the same of music and dance, or YouTube 'stars'. It's one thing having your kid make a fleeting appearance in an occasional YouTube video but there are so many YouTube channels built around young children and it doesn't seem right to me. It's exploitation.

Oprah Winfrey has spoken openly about being abused by a family member in her childhood, and how conflicted she was. She felt it was wrong, but at the same time she loved this person because they were family. I think MJ cultivated exactly this type of attachment to deter his victims from complaining. Highly predatory behaviour.

I also watched the Netflic programme Abducted in Plain Sight the other week and my jaw was on the floor at how the parents, police and everyone enabled that vile predator to groom and rape that poor young girl. Not only did they allow him to sleep in her bed while she was a child, they both had sex with him themselves . Truly breathtaking, and not in a good way.

Made me really sad. I always liked MJ music, but always also thought he was very weird.
I do believe both Wade and James. both are believable. no doubt in my mind.
I believe that this form of abuse, pulls the rug from under you, you have no core values that you can trust. It damages you to your very core. the fact that James hated himself but didn't know why. That really got to me.

I found both the mothers very odd.
My heart went out to James more than it did Wade.
BUT, there is something a bit more disingenuous about Wade a bit more so than James? Wade always wanted to be a star, no matter what the cost. he said so. He treated people very badly and utilised his MJ connection, for along time, until the Britney and NSync work dried up. Then he tried to get his book written. Only then, when desperate for money did he submit his 1.6 billion claim.

And I do understand why he couldn't cope with the truth up until that point.

I cant accept that he doesn't feel bad for the boys he let down when he lied, in court re the other boys abuse claims. I know he was so groomed that he couldn't see it as abuse till later, he was so in love with MJ. But he did lie and let Jordan and Gavin down, because he was a big part of MJ not being found guilty.

Maybe he doesn't realise that he doesn't come across as remorseful for that. But I would like to see him being more remorseful. He always seems so self centred. But maybe I'm being unfair, maybe that's because he HAS to be self centred, as a self preservation, of the immense damage, that the MJ intense grooming has done to him. Means that his whole life, whole personality, all trust issues, and rotten to the core, because of what MJ did to him?

Such a mess. Such a shame. The Oprah interview said 1 in 6 is abused. So very sad. I hate to think of that statistic. I only know one person who has been abused. I'm glad that I know quite a few people who haven't been abused, and I'm pretty sure, because we aren't hiding anything, we come from totally loving normal families and don't have the inner, mental, trust issues, that such abuse creates.

I do think that this programme, the documentary was timely and brings this topic tot he forefront again. It needs to be discussed and acknowledged, no matter how sad and awful it is.

I agree with Rocky. The utter distraught of both James and Wade when they had been 'dumped' for the next 'special one' was so very very sad. So wrong. You aren't supposed to have that experience, those feelings at such a young age.

It just showed that MJ did not care about them at all, because he just used them and then was on to the next one. That realisation must have been very very painful for them.

What a true piece of shit MJ was. How incredibly vile.

Oblomov19 I wondered that about Wade. It may be he has a very functional view of the situation precisely because he didn't mature in an entirely natural way- he was probably (as far as we know) the youngest child Michael abused, and the details of him as a tiny child (which a 7 year old boy is) seeing Michael cry about how lonely he was, being responsible for his feelings from that moment on, and hiding sexual abuse from a young age may have created a false and perhaps quite mercenary personality. Wade is who he is because of MJ in every sense.

Is there any kind of retrospective justice to be found through proceedings taken against those who colluded with MJ. His management who bookedsuites for him on tours. Logistics of flights for him and these children and sending film crews to film these kids for him.
The people who cleaned his house but couldn't say anything
There is probably no chance of an inquiry such as Saville.
MJ was able to operate with a huge amount of support from those around him. They knew. They did nothing.
They let him abuse a cancer victim.

I think MJ cultivated exactly this type of attachment to deter his victims from complaining. Highly predatory behaviour.

Yes. Like Spring said, the crying in the corner because he didn't want Wade to leave made a 7 year old responsible for the feelings of an adult man. It's textbook abuse. Along with the alienating the boys from their families. And he told Wade that if anyone every found out they would both go to prison because people don't understand. Imagine a 7 year old worrying about that

I fully believe people like Aaron Carter were the cover up kids.

Corey Feldman has now said something along those lines. Basically that he can no longer defend Michael, and that while Michael didn't abuse him personally, he can't and won't speak for others and that we should always believe the victims.

The only person based on actions more likely to be a predatory paedophile is Jimmy saville. He was a media darling too and everyone loved him until about this time after his death...

RockyFlintstone yes MJ had them on a tight leesh, even in adulthood they felt tied to him, they were controlled, rather like a domestic abuser. That is probably why they did not speak out sooner, and they supported him in court. They were scared. Imagine the boys being women, and MJ is their controlling partner, he had threatened them too.

He used to sweeten them with gifts for them and their family, also help with their career.