Why is the one popular/lively/extrovert girl in every group dislikes me, all my life?

[Borelis]

Hi,
I am a mid-20s female and felt throughout my life, e.g. at school and at every work place, say there's 30 people (15 guys and 15 girls), the 15 guys will generally be really friendly or at least nice enough to me. In the 15 girls, at least 12 or 13 of them would be really friendly or at least neutral with me. However, every time there's usually a short but loud, lively, extrovert girl (the type who leads group convos, laughs at every joke loudly and generally thinks she's the leader, very opinionated etc) will almost instantly take a dislike to me (without any argument etc occurring as I'll be fairly civil and normal with her) but I could tell as she'd then bitch to the other girls behind my back about me to the point where they start avoiding me too and she'd openly disagree with anything I have to say etc. and then the news will spread to the guys and some of them will also take a step back..

I don't know why this happens at EVERY school and work place I've been to. 90% of people will be fine/very friendly with me yet that one short, loud, female just will not like me for no reason that I can think of.

P.S I am also short but considered "pretty" I guess and above average intelligence (based on grades, work performance etc.) but I don't show off about this at all. I'm not a shy introvert but I'm definitely not a loud extrovert either (I wouldn't speak a lot in group settings/meetings) - I am exactly in the middle (which surely should be the easiest type for most people to get along with?). Most men seem to like talking to me, even as friends, more than with other girls. I am the type to always be very smiley, friendly, agreeable and helpful but I know I can come across slightly "cold" with females, just purely out of being a bit nervous of them and their possible rejection but I'm still very helpful and kind with them. It's not even that these loud extrovert girls like only loud people as they'll happily get along with both loud people and those that are much much quieter than me.

I just hate that this one person always ends with me losing everyone's popularity at every place I go to. I can't pinpoint exactly what causes this

in my humble armchair psychologist opinion you’ve created yourself a stereotype and this is now a self-fulfilling prophecy. You look for and hone in on the type of woman you perceive has a problem with you and thus create a negative vibe (and they will be able to tell, just like you can ‘tell’ who is bitching behind your back and doesn’t like you) meaning that they probably are behaving the way you describe to some extent because it does get people’s hackles up when they’re apparently disliked/untrusted for no reason.

Work on taking people at face value until you’re given reason not to, it’s a balancing act against your natural instinct but nine times out of ten people just want to get along without drama.

Maybe these short extroverts are upset because you are shorter than they are?

I'm short and I don't want any competition! 😂😂

I'm definitely not saying I'm THE prettiest or THE cleverest - for the purposes of this, I've put myself as being average in both measures and have noticed that very beautiful women (prettier than me) and very clever women (cleverer than me) have NEVER behaved horribly towards me

Do you mean the only people prettier than you are very beautiful? You know it's a bit more subjective than that right

There is well known phenomenon though where we're much more likely to make excuses for or ignore bad behaviour from people who we think are attractive? So the very beautiful women might be being cows in fact but you're focusing on this other group?

What surprises me is that you separate how men and women see you - therefore you must act and behave differently to different genders.
For instance a lot of people might say ‘I’m friendly and get along with most people but some people that tend to be leaders struggle with me.’

Whereas you treat your relations with men and women completely separately? I believe that’s the key for you to think about and work out what you are doing.

You don’t have to get on with everyone in a group. Focus on those you like and feel compatible with. It is not a competition, unless you make it one.

@Cornettoninja Yes the self fulfilling prophecy thing is very likely to be contributing - I did wonder about this myself but I feel along with that there must be another behaviour trait from me that's additionally causing that reaction as if the self fulfilling prophecy was causing me to me a bit more people pleaser-y towards such women (which is probably the case), surely that alone isn't causing me to be so incredibly off-putting?

@woollyheart Actually funnily, a lot of the short women are to the inch, almost exactly the same height as me (or an inch below my height).

@Namechangeforthiscancershit No I'm not saying "only very beautiful women are more beautiful than me".. some people just seem to love picking apart every sentence I wrote on here. I referred to very beautiful woman as a woman only slightly prettier than me might be deemed less prettier than me by some (as like you said, beauty is very subjective!) but I think we all know of women or people who are incredibly beautiful in that they are regarded as beautiful by the great majority of the population - hence why I used that in my comparison to try and minimize the effect of subjectivity. No I don't think I would make excuses for a person's behaviour if they are pretty - I think that is more seen in opposite sex behaviour where a man may put up with rude behaviour from a pretty girl but not from a bloke etc.

@LuluBellaBlue Well, I can't really say "I’m friendly and get along with most people but some people that tend to be leaders struggle with me" because that wouldn't be true. There's a clear divide between the genders here - I've gotten along totally fine with all male leader personality types I've met so why would I skew the reality of the situation. Even if it was a 90:10 split between women and men who don't get along with me, I'd have written across both genders but it's not.. it's literally been 100:0.

I know @SecretWitch but it just makes me feel uneasy and uncomfortable that this always happens to me as I'd never hate/dislike someone so much for no huge reason (not like I was expecting them to be my best friend as I know you can't expect that from everyone but surely being civil and mildly friendly to someone who has done you no wrong isn't a big ask?

I think that is more seen in opposite sex behaviour where a man may put up with rude behaviour from a pretty girl but not from a bloke etc

Actually not, correlation is much stronger when looking at same sex. It's not an attraction thing, just that we're conditioned to ascribe positive characteristics to people who are also physically attractive

Loud, short and “pretty” doesn’t describe personality so I think you may have a hard time being self reflective.

Have you tried one on the ‘Big 5’ online personality questionnaires? Try it, it may help you understand yourself better.

I’m a short loud brunette and I definitely find you hugely annoying.

I think the OP was expecting 'ooh they're obviously all jealous of you hun, coz you're so pretty/clever/desirable to the menz'

🙄

@DavetheCat2001
nice try but no. Men constantly tell me that anyway when I've spoken to them about this issue and IF that was the case, it wouldn't just be the loud women who disliked by me but all/any women as I presume jealousy is felt equally by intro and extroverts in general. I know it's not JUST that as prettier and cleverer people than me are well liked by some of these loud types, but I notice often these extrovert types who dislike me tend to copy clothing items (could be by chance) and food items (those who were housemates) - like they'd copy most items so it was clearly no coincidence. I even tried buying something random like mushrooms which I nor any of my housemates ever buy and next week, the copier had bought it as well lol.

I have literally no idea what you mean about the copying thing. I've read it four times and still can't make sense of it. Are you saying that these women who dislike you tend to be ones who copy other women and if so, why did the mushroom woman copy you? Are you saying that the women who dislike you also tend to copy you? I'm so confused.

@dreamalittlebiggerdarling Sorry I was typing in a rush and so a bit unclear. I mean I've noticed a lot of these loud "hater" women I encounter will be quite clearly copying food choices, clothing etc. (before you say it is a coincidence, some of the things the copy are so unique and with the time frame, it's very unlikely to be a coincidence) - yes I am saying quite a proportion of the women who don't like me seem to copy me and also often get involved in convos I have with other people (yet will leave me out when organising lunch at work etc.)

"I am the type to always be very smiley, friendly, agreeable and helpful but I know I can come across slightly "cold" with females,"
" Men constantly tell me that anyway when I've spoken to them about this issue"

When I've seen Men constantly tell Women that it's jealousy, it honestly hasn't been. It's that the Woman does your first statement and comes across as insincere.

Do you go on about appearance, or other vacuous stuff, at all? Have what you think is banter?

Wait, you think you have a monopoly on buying mushrooms?!

I'm in agreement with the majority here; it sounds like you don't like women very much, particularly those you deem a certain "type" (telling that you refer to women as "females", like a Reddit incel) of whom you sound quite judgmental – that loud is somehow inferior. And the common denominator is you.

Maybe these short women feel insecure and behave in ways to bolster their confidence. So, they may copy ideas from elsewhere. Or overdo the convivial act. Maybe you detect this and they are uncomfortable about that.

Or as others have said, they might be just being their normal self, but you are projecting a stereotype into them.

Just relax about it. You may be spooking them out by observing them critically. If you relax, you may get on with some of them. Anyway, it is normal not to get on with everyone. I know a lot of bossy short women, and mostly we get on fine. Sometimes, there is one that I don't get on with, so I would just keep my distance.

I'm still maintaining that the problem is you overthinking all of this and seeing odd patterns (oh my gawd / copying) which I'm not sure are helpful to assessing the problem. Much more likely it's that you're apprehending trouble and so behaving a bit oddly and they're picking up on it, reinforcing the idea in your head. You do sound very wearing though, sorry.

I think you are reading far too much into situations and that may be effecting your behaviour which may in turn be leading people to find you difficult to be around. The way you've worded everything you've written is almost aggressive and quite self absorbed... often other peoples behaviour has nothing to do with you and is actually about them and how they are feeling/what's going on for them that day etc..

I think of you really do want things to change for you you might have to have a look at how you are reacting to things.... try and not take things personally... it sounds to me like you may be the one who is doing the things that you are accusing this short loud person of doing... not on purpose but in deciding you are being victimised it may be that you are behaving in a way that is coming across as cold or angry and thus perpetuating the situation where you feel people are turning against you.

@burritofan I knew someone would have a go at me about the mushroom comment - it's not a stand alone example. That same woman had copied my hairstyle, clothes, and that was about the 8th item or so she had copied.. AND she used to rummage through the bins looking at the packaging I threw away to check where I bought stuff from - do I have monopoly on all of that too supposedly??
I've never once said being loud is inferior..! I wish I was a bit more outspoken tbh and me disliking women is completely untrue. If that was the case, I'd be celebrating about all these short extroverted women leaving me out yet I'm not. I appreciate that people have different viewpoints about what might be causing this and a lot of people's opinions are along the right lines BUT me supposedly hating women isn't one of them! I am total feminist lol and even if a man and woman did the same mean thing to me, I feel more annoyed/slighted by the man if anything.

@woollyheart thanks - what you've said makes sense and I had thought about it like that as well.

@nos123
I tried the big 5 personality test you recommended and have attached my results.

@dreamalittlebiggerdarling Yes I realize some of it is overthinking as I am a very analytical person but some of it so obviously true e.g. the girl at work - I'll compliment her, hold the door open for her, smile, in fact I was involved in the recruitment process to interview and hire her in the first place, smile etc. and what do I get in return? Her offering food to the person to my left, to the person to my right, the person in front of me and the one behind, in the office.

OP, you say you are nervous around women. How is your relationship with your mother, and how well did she relate to others?

You seem to place a lot of value on being "smiley". Are you ever self-deprecating? Or vulnerable? I'm picturing you as a bit of a Stepford wife to be honest, sorry!

It sounds like you're over-thinking. If you're a bit intense, and smiley, and helpful, you may just be making people nervous with your watching them intently to see if they like you!

Relax. Some people just won't like you. Not a biggie.

OK. But calling women "females" and referring to them as being bitchy and gossipy, and saying things such as I'd not say things like "Ooooh oh my gawd" etc that most other girls do doesn't sound terribly feminist to me. Maybe it's the fifth wave?

It does sound as though the mushroom bin-rummager was a bit of a loon, but presumably that's a one-off. It seems as though you might project previous experiences on to new groups, singling out the loud, short woman whose type you're familiar with, and zone in on her – smiling and being nervous at the same time – in order to "correct" previous experiences. Does that sound at all likely?