Why is the one popular/lively/extrovert girl in every group dislikes me, all my life?

[Borelis]

Hi,
I am a mid-20s female and felt throughout my life, e.g. at school and at every work place, say there's 30 people (15 guys and 15 girls), the 15 guys will generally be really friendly or at least nice enough to me. In the 15 girls, at least 12 or 13 of them would be really friendly or at least neutral with me. However, every time there's usually a short but loud, lively, extrovert girl (the type who leads group convos, laughs at every joke loudly and generally thinks she's the leader, very opinionated etc) will almost instantly take a dislike to me (without any argument etc occurring as I'll be fairly civil and normal with her) but I could tell as she'd then bitch to the other girls behind my back about me to the point where they start avoiding me too and she'd openly disagree with anything I have to say etc. and then the news will spread to the guys and some of them will also take a step back..

I don't know why this happens at EVERY school and work place I've been to. 90% of people will be fine/very friendly with me yet that one short, loud, female just will not like me for no reason that I can think of.

P.S I am also short but considered "pretty" I guess and above average intelligence (based on grades, work performance etc.) but I don't show off about this at all. I'm not a shy introvert but I'm definitely not a loud extrovert either (I wouldn't speak a lot in group settings/meetings) - I am exactly in the middle (which surely should be the easiest type for most people to get along with?). Most men seem to like talking to me, even as friends, more than with other girls. I am the type to always be very smiley, friendly, agreeable and helpful but I know I can come across slightly "cold" with females, just purely out of being a bit nervous of them and their possible rejection but I'm still very helpful and kind with them. It's not even that these loud extrovert girls like only loud people as they'll happily get along with both loud people and those that are much much quieter than me.

I just hate that this one person always ends with me losing everyone's popularity at every place I go to. I can't pinpoint exactly what causes this

@Ali1cedowntherabbithole

What do you mean "the type I don't like"..? I think you've read mine the wrong way around. I've only mentioned the type that doesn't seem to like me.. In all honesty, there isn't a "type" that I don't like in regards to friendships - I'm mid way between extrovert and introvert so neither is particularly difficult for me to be around.

Romantically, I have a type but in terms of friendships I've never had one!

there is something in your op which rubbed me up the wrong way - I’m trying to put my finger on it.

I’m not short of loud but you tone is very I’m right they’re wrong, I’m logical they’re irrational very black and white. I wonder if people feel judged?

Would you say you have a good sense of humour or are you inclined toward ‘ but seriously/actually it’s like this....’?

That said, some people do have a big chip on their shoulder about clever people and will just take again them. In a group of 30 you’d be likely to meet at least one!

I think lots of women find it easier to form friendships and (non-romantic) relationships with men, I know as I used to be one of these type of women too. On reflection I think it is because men will make more of an effort and more allowances for young , attractive women even if they have no romantic interest in them. It's a bit of a generalisation but I do honestly think it's true and it can be confusing for women when female relationships seem like they're harder work and require more energy in comparison. I think it's more likely that other women are looking for a friendship of equals and are less willing to make allowances for other women. If you have got used to the more "easy" male relationships/friendships then it could feel like women are being difficult or dislike you. Maybe you notice this more with the louder women as they are more visible than your quieter female colleagues and thus you are more aware of their behaviour and attitude?

I am the type to always be very smiley, friendly, agreeable and helpful but I know I can come across slightly "cold" with females

I’m not sure in whose world smiley, friendly, agreeable and helpful could come across as cold. I think you only display those traits to men and are a “man’s woman” type who professes to get along with women but really has zero interest in connecting with other them. I’ve met a few of you.

Interesting you call men, men but women are females and girls.

Well, you are, you say, pretty, above average intelligent and men like you.... so what could there possibly be to dislike?!

from a short loud girl who for obvious reasons doesnt like short pretty girls of above average intellagence. You do realise how ridiculous this is! I dont give much thought to peoples personal attributes. If you make the effort with people they will usually make it back. If people dont respond well to you perhaps you arnt making the effort and expect people to like you. Ditch these assumptions of what certain types of people are going to be like.

And men will not be your friend when you are middle aged. They are good at being nice to young pretty women who are warm to them, but once you cross that threshold.... You need to forget your assumptions and learn how to get in with the girls.

Interesting you call men, men but women are females and girls.

Yes that jumped out at me too

The thing is I never expect everyone to like me. If I was in an office of 30 people i’d Hope to make a few good friends, some aquaintances, and note the ones i’m Probably not going to get on with (too loud, bitchy etc). And then avoid them a bit. I wouldn’t worry about it tbh.

The short thing, if true, might indicate you are looking over them for someone more interesting to talk to. I can't think of any other way the shortness could be relevant.

Op, I sympathise. I’ve had this for years. In any group, I try to get on with everyone but there is often 1 woman who doesn’t like me. I never know how to react, so I try to stay away from her but am then accused of being snobby or cold. When I’m just trying to keep out of her way.
So you aren’t alone. I’m now mid fifties and I still get on with my male colleagues & most female colleagues. I’ll probably retire without knowing what the problem is. So I can’t give a magic answer, but I get it, and it’s really tiring.

tbh op, you just sound like bloody hard work, as a short loud blonde female I just think I could not be bothered with all your navel gazing, I'm just too busy organising the next party.

sinisterbumfacedcat Yes, maybe that’s the answer. No matter how hard anyone tries there will always be someone who isn’t keen.
Takes a certain level of self belief but it makes sense.

It may be harsh but if as you say it happens every time it’s either your fault or your imagination.

This. It sounds as if you mentally impose the same pattern on every social/school/work situation, and that pattern sounds like some very juvenile high-school movie/queen bee/alpha female idea of how social groups work.

Maybe stop looking for imaginary or self-fulfilling prophecy patterns, and stop being so terminally self-conscious. I can't imagine wanting to have a conversation, far less a friendship, with someone who was always watching her behaviour around other women, who seem to figure in your imagination as judgemental sheeple trotting around after some miniature loud alpha woman.

I mean, I don't care whether you're 'smiley and helpful' or not unless I'm a patient and you're a medical professional, I suppose, or I'm physically dependent on you in some way what do you bring to the table in potential friendships? Why would someone want to be friends with you -- what is interesting about you? At the moment, all I'm getting from your posts is someone terribly self-conscious, all of whose spidey senses are on the alert for the way she's coming across, and who has a depressing obsession with whoever she thinks has the most power within a group. There must surely be more to you than that.

A discreet pair of heel lifts inserted into the shoes of the troublemaker should see harmony restored.

If you can't persuade the troublemaker to comply with this solution, cheer yourself up by listening to Randy Newman telling it like it is about short people.

Hahaha, I have to laugh as I'm fairly sure I'm one of those girls you have described! I don't tend to dislike anybody unless they are giving off vibes that they don't like me (or they have actually done something wrong), then I tend to avoid interacting with them as I'd rather not allow somebody like that to make me feel insecure.

Surely you must be capable of realising that the shortness is irrelevant, OP. Even though the women you’ve had this issue with were all short, it’s really odd to imply that has significance of any sort. It’s a coincidence, clearly. Like if they all had brown eyes or something.

The plain fact that you keep mentioning it as if it could somehow be relevant is making your entire worldview come across as a bit irrational and unreliable.

A discreet pair of heel lifts inserted into the shoes of the troublemaker should see harmony restored.

They're obviously intimidated by your beauty, intelligence, wit and height. Is that what you want to hear?

I agree with PP who say "you can't expect everyone to like you". It took me a while to be ok with this (am now early 30s) but ultimately if you have any personality then you will rub someone up the wrong way.

Better to focus on the friends you have and the genuine people in your life.

And this widespread misperception (on a fair few MN threads) that pretty, clever, successful women can have no female friends is, IMO, rubbish: both from my own experience and that of my beautiful, clever, successful female friends who mean the world to me!

I’m not short or loud but your tone is very I’m right they’re wrong

Well, if what the OP describes is accurate, then they are in the wrong - bitching about her and being unpleasant for no obvious reason except that they've taken a dislike to her.

I'm not sure why people are assuming the OP is one of those women who don't like other women, when she says that she gets on fine with most of them. To deny that any women are absolute cowbags wouod be ridiculous.

Maybe you are threatened/ competitive with such women and start imagining how they feel about you projection from your own mind. In turn responding by feeling like a victim when really it's all in your head?

projecting*

the type who leads group convos, ... laughs at every joke loudly and generally thinks she's the leader, very opinionated etc)

Perhaps there something in every girl who sees herself as a leader, which recognises and bows down to your natural leadership qualities, and so feel themselves desperately inadequate by contrast.

@fancynancyclancy if as you say it happens every time it’s either your fault or your imagination.

this^