I’m yet to meet a leaver

[ScafellPoke]

Or have I but they’re just too ashamed to admit it?

Well, in theory over 50% of people you meet will be leavers. They're probably too scared to tell you as most remainers I know label them 'racist' etc. And before anyone asks I am a remainer.

I'm in Scotland and yet to meet a leaver either!

@BoneyBackJefferson
congrats on the smarmy bullshit response, it makes my point

Well thanks for the well reasoned, non insulting response.

You kind of make my point too. We need to be reasonable but people aren't prepared to engage politely anymore.

Why debate when you can just hurl insults? Why listen and respond appropriately when you can just be dismissive and patronising?

As I have said repeatedly poor areas are effectively disenfranchised in the U.K. FPTP means we have to appeal to middle Britain and the poor are disposable.

I genuinely believe if we stay poor leave voters will feel they have been ignored and then will become even more disengaged. If we leave the same people will be the ones who suffer most. And they will still be ignored.

Yep Houston except the ERG/DUP Bastards Collective who are being allowed to run the country currently do not agree.

Yes BBJ the original Pan , greetings and hope all is well with you?
Oddly I never thought of myself as tolerant when it comes to stuff like this. I appreciate your fence-sitting position, as it were, but I cant join you.

It is irrelevant now as it doesn’t look like there will be a people’s vote. Hopefully people will stop discussing how everyone voted and focus on how everyone is going to cope in the future. As DH and I are not British (although lived here the majority of our lives) we have decided now is the time to leave the UK . It’s taking longer than we planned as DH is the senior partner in a GP practice and when he leaves it will close down and he wants to give the patients enough time to find another surgery.

Agree Parker231
This continual childish name calling is so pathetic ( on both sides ). We’re leaving the EU so let’s just pull together as a country & move on.

Windowsareforcheaters

you can pull me up on the like for like.

But ask yourself what was the point of the opening your comment?
Does it do anything other than devalue anything other than the rest of your post?

Did it really need to be there?

Why debate when you can just hurl insults? Why listen and respond appropriately when you can just be dismissive and patronising?

So why did you put it in?

I haven't read the rest of your comment, Why? because you started with an insult.

why have I read this one? because you aimed it at me.

I genuinely believe if we stay poor leave voters will feel they have been ignored and then will become even more disengaged. If we leave the same people will be the ones who suffer most. And they will still be ignored.

I have repeatedly said the same thing. But I then when I made the same point you threw the insults out.

MrPan

It is genuinely good to see that you are still about.

Sorry to lose you and your family Parker231, good luck for the future.

And frankly for a side that preaches tolerance and inclusion. Some are just showing what hypocritical bigots they are

Why would I want to be tolerant of racist people. Do they deserve to be included?!

Nope, no plans to tolerate racist bigots here either. Luckily not a single leave voter ever said anything racist so they are fine.

JacquesHammer

Do you believe that all leavers are racists?
Do you believe that all leavers aren't racists?

Whether we like them or not they are here and they are included by being able to vote.

The only way to change views is to communicate, if you exclude them then you become part of the problem.

BBJ - where have I insulted you?

Why debate when you can just hurl insults? Why listen and respond appropriately when you can just be dismissive and patronising?

For the second time on this thread these are rhetorical questions used to frame an argument. The 'you' involved was a general societal 'you' and not directed at an individual.

The quote applies to both sides of the argument. The 'you' involved could be a leaver or a remainer as both sides are behaving in the same way.

The point about the poor was also in a post of mine at 11:20 and you described that post and comment as 'smarmy bullshit' - I thought I was agreeing with you but apparently not.

Why not respond to the points and not the person?

Do people believe that wanting to have control over the numbers of people coming to the UK is racist?

Do you believe that all leavers are racists? No, i quite clearly said that in my first post.
Do you believe that all leavers aren't racists? No, I believe some are.

Whether we like them or not they are here and they are included by being able to vote

Absolutely. I don’t have to include or tolerate listening to their views.

The only way to change views is to communicate, if you exclude them then you become part of the problem No. THEY are the problem for being racist. Why would I continue to associate with them?

Windowsareforcheaters

where have I insulted you?

Interesting that you can quote my response but not what I took as being patronising then post about being others being "dismissive and patronising".

Maybe you should start responses with the actual name of the poster.

If you want an actual debate.

Lucky you OP I am surrounded by the fuckers.

They love next door, over the road, I am the fighter of them and niece of them

Only one has openly said they regret their vote.

JacquesHammer

No. THEY are the problem for being racist. Why would I continue to associate with them?

Because if THEY are allowed to have the only voice, then THEY are the ones that will control the narrative of the debate. And I am not saying that you should associate with them. Just argue the points made.

BBJ

Let's try this - can we help the poor in this country while still using FPTP?

Addressing the needs of specific groups can only be done via constitutional change. It's a boring way to do the right thing but the only way we can move forward.

Fighter...bloody autocorrect....daughter of them

Just argue the points made

If only I’d thought of that.

Windowsareforcheaters

Let's try this - can we help the poor in this country while still using FPTP?

No we can't, but then I am an advocate of AV, PR and NOTA

Addressing the needs of specific groups can only be done via constitutional change. It's a boring way to do the right thing but the only way we can move forward.

Only if you listen to what their problems are and not just assume that they need what groups believe that they need and don't just dismiss their concerns.

JacquesHammer

If only I’d thought of that.

We all know that we are not going to win everyone over, there will always be hardcore views on all sides.

But does that mean that we shouldn't be the voice trying to make the points that changes others minds.

But does that mean that we shouldn't be the voice trying to make the points that changes others minds

Quite frankly I haven’t got the time to waste on idiots. I’d rather use my time for more valuable uses. There’s only so many times you can say “you’re wrong. Your views are both ridiculously stupid and abhorrent”.

JacquesHammer

Quite frankly I haven’t got the time to waste on idiots. I’d rather use my time for more valuable uses.

Is there anything more valuable than being the voice that changes the view of the naive or the innocent, those that that are surrounded by those "idiots" that are irredeemable and rarely will hear the other side of the discussion?