DS4’s early waking is destroying us all.

[ZaraZebra]

DS is 4.5 and has never been a brilliant sleeper. His ‘normal’ wake up time seems to be 4.45am, but when the clocks go back in October he starts waking at 3.45am - and his body clock doesn’t ever reset. We had a whole winter of this last year.

He wakes regularly at 3.45am for the day, and will not be persuaded to go back to sleep. He shares a room wth his older brother and will often wake him. Older DS has mild SEN, and is particularly affected by sleep deprivation, so this is particularly upsetting.

So if we leave him in his room he wakes his poor brother.
If we whisk DS out of there, he wakes the baby. Who then normally wakes DS1.
If we reluctantly take him into the living room, he wakes our neighbour.

He appears v awake, not tired. Just ready for the day - at 4am. But he screams bloody murder if we leave him.

I’ve asked the HV for help in the past. She suggested an earlier bedtime, so he now goes to bed between 6-6.30pm, which has helped in that we can now get to bed earlier ourselves. But nothing has changed his early wake up.

We have also tried: no screens after 4pm; no sugar; milky porridge for supper; enforced hour in the garden.

We’ve mentioned it to Drs in the past who have laughed. But it’s not funny, particularly as it affects DS1. People have often laughed over the years that he would sleep more once he went to school, but he hasn’t.

Sorry this is so long, but I’m desperate. Any advice? Is there anything medically that can be done?
Thanks

Sorry I should say the enforced hour in the garden is after school! (Rather than at 4am, although maybe that’s an idea!)

Have you tried a later bedtime?

Oh yes! Later bedtime tried many times - nothing changes the early wake up.

Oh I feel for you! Seems obvious but have you tried a gro clock? My 3 and 5 year olds both have them - we use them with a sticker chart (you set the clock for their wake up time at first then gradually move it later over time). We managed to get the 3 year old from a 4.30am wake up to a 6am wake up using that method. Symoathies though, the early waking is a killer!

I feel your pain and have suggestions because we tried it all. Will he look quietly at books in bed if you give him a time he can officially get up st? We had a ’monkey clock’ which opened his eyes at a set time, and the rule was that when monkey opened his eyes it was ok to be up. If monkeywas sleeping though, grown ups were sleeping too.

It was hard though. Onthe plus side we now have an 11 yo who gets up early and has her homework finished by 7am! School only made her sleep a bit more.

Isn't there something children can take to encourage good sleep - melatonin isn't it?

But some people are natural early risers and just need less sleep than others! My dad has always been awake from about 5am. Is he old enough to go downstairs quietly and read or play if he can't get back to sleep?

Unfortunately you can't make people go to sleep if they're not tired and if he's wide awake at that time it might be better if he just got up and entertained himself for a bit?

If he's going to bed at 6.00-6.30 and up at 4.00 he's sleeping 10 hours.

What time do you want him to get up? And calculate 10 hours back from there.
Not all children need 12 hours sleep.

I had one like this. He's 9 now and still wakes at around 4.30am. It's a nightmare but I do allow him to play alone until we are all up. There's just no fighting it anymore.

We still have a gro clock for him (he is SEN) but it doesn't make him sleep. It makes him realise he shouldn't be awake, but he either ignores it (there was only one star left mum) or he sits and waits for it to change into a sun. Kind of defeats the point! He will never see it and roll back over and go back to sleep.

In the earlier years, I just got up with him. But now he can reach the cereal and his iPad, I don't bother.

I agree a gro clock but don't just stick it on 7am and expect him to stay in bed. First you need to set it to the time he wakes up and reward the fuck out of him for staying in bed till it goes orange. Stick at it for a week or so then start adding 10 mins to the time it goes orange every 3 or 4 days. It takes a lot of effort and consistency but it worked in our house for both our early risers. I can't stress enough that you need to create the orange equals reward thing before you start changing the time.

Also, can you reconfig the rooms so they aren't sharing for a while? Even if it means something weird like the baby sleeping in the bathroom?

I have to add our gro clock is set for 4.45am. It's still too late for him!

Ds1 wentbthrough a phase of this though at a younger age . It has gradually improved, the Gro clock has helped immensely. Now when he wakes he stays in bed til it turns orange.

I think I'd try the later bedtime for an extended period, and combine with something like the Gro clock. Can you change your sleeping arrangements so that you or dh are in with him instead. If he really can't sleep any later, he needs to learn to be quiet when he wakes up, (sorry, stating the obvious....)

God that sounds horrific. Another vote for the grow clock here. If DD wakes before her sun comes up she knows she has to stay in her room and be quiet. She can play but she's not allowed to wake anyone else up.

Could he be moved to his own room at all? Even if it's sticking him in a dining room or something?

I'm sure you've tried this but could he watch TV while you doze?

I don't want to be one of those dicks, so I mean this gently, but he's 4.5. He's well old enough to know this isn't OK and especially the screaming, that's downright naughty and needs proper consequences. He's not a toddler so you need to treat this as you treat other defiant and unacceptable behaviour. NO getting out of bed until the gro clock says (set it for 5am initially and build up) and then you can get up quietly and go downstairs and have a glass of water and listen quietly to an audio CD until 6am. Then a parent will come down. Obviously you set up the CD and water the night before. Keep gradually increasing the times. And bring on spring!

My 5 year old ds is an early riser and always has been. Your putting him to bed far to early. My ds goes to bed at half 7 and wakes up about 5ish. If he wakes up earlier than that I tell him its not time to get up yet and put him back to bed and he will go back to sleep. I had to do this as he was wanting to get up at 3 in the morning, it took him a couple of days to adjust to this. I also told him before he went to bed that he was waking up to early for mummy and mummy needed to sleep or it would make mummy poorly and he seemed to understand this. Also swimming before bedtime pretty much knocks him out and he will have a lie in till 7ish.

I’d put him to bed later for a week and see what happens.

If he’s waking up at the same time every day, I would wonder what it was. Ie is the heating or something clicking on and waking him up

I would also try resetting him by gently waking him at about 10pm to take him to the toilet (I managed to do it so they never fully woke but took a week or so to get it right). My dcs at that age would wake early because their bladders were full. So a night time wee trip would make them sleep longer in the morning.

My 3 year old goes to bed at 10pm and gets up at 8am.

Flatly refuse to do early morning wake ups.

When you say you’ve tried a later bedtime what time do you mean?

She is bathed, teeth brushed andin PJs at 7pm. It’s then quiet time in my bed, she watches TV, usually a movie not something that will wind her up! We read books or she just lies there and chats. I catch up on my internet. Lights are low and then around 10pm I say right sleep time now and stop engaging with her other than to say, time to go to sleep no more talking.

6.30pm is so so so early to go to bed. We don’t even have dinner until 7pm!

Adults have dinner at 7pm. Kids eat around 6pm

Thanks so much for replies and sympathy.

Yes, we’ve used a gro clock. (Set for something ridiculous like 4.30) It worked for a bit (with ever increasing rewards), but then it stopped working because he’d either (a) sit sobbing and howling in his bed (and therefore waking everyone up) because he wasn’t go to get his comic that day. Or (b) March cheerfully into our room saying “oh well, there was only one/two stars left. I almost did it!”

Good point re maybe ten hours is enough for him. But we can’t start the day at 3.45! Moving his bedtime back to 6.30 has been to make him less overtired. I’d take a regular 5am start at this stage.

Thank you, I’m looking through other suggestions. Has anyone had any luck with NHS (or private?) helping with this? Am I being naive to think there is a solution?

If I put my dc to bed at 6pm they'd probably be up at 4am too! That's extremely early for a 4.5 yr old.

My dc are 6 and 4 and never really needed more than 10 hrs sleep!

How long have you tried the later bedtime? Things like this need at least 6 weeks before the routine can kick in. I'd try nearer a 7.30/8pm bedtime. Mine are still early risers but more 6.30am, which is fine for us.

Dts are early risers and always have been - they went through a stage of 4am but that was Back when they were toddlers. They're 8 now and still mostly get up at 545 the main difference being of course that they are now old enough to get on with it.

I think at 4.5 something needs to change - any chance you can remit the sleeping arrangements to at least he's not waking his brother even temporarily and then get it drilled in to him that it is not on to be screaming for you at that time. Can he read a clock? When mine were about that age they had a digital clock and knew they had to stay in their rooms until at least 615.

I'd also persevere with a slightly later bed time.

I feel your pain our DA woke at 5am for yrs, now aged 11 he is up at 6am every morning.

I too suggest an alarm clock with a light to show when he should be awake and when he should be asleep. Could you move the bedrooms around so that he is either in his own room or with your next early riser?

I really recommend having a rule that he must stay in his bed or at least his bedroom until an acceptable time.

Good luck xx

For about a month we put him to bed at 7.45/8pm. It meant that he was getting about 7 hours sleep and he was a weepy, angry mess most of the month. At no point did he start waking any later.

Good point re needing a wee though. Very occasionally he’ll wake at 2am for a wee, and then I think he often sleeps a teeny bit later. It feels scary waking him when he’s such a bad sleeper, but yes that could be worth a try

6 weeks for a routine to settle in? Aargh. Maybe we could try later bedtime again. It would certainly be more family friendly, because rushing to always be home for 5.30pm wind down has been quite annoying.

In my experience NHS referrals take forever and aren’t much help. I would go down the private route.