Where children really better behaved in the past or do people remember with rose tinted glasses?

[username5555]

This is inspired by a video online whereby a toddler was having a massive tantrum on a 8 hour flight.
A lot of the comments underneath basically were how terrible a parent the mother was and how in their day the child wouldn't have dared behave like that.
What is the alleged difference? What are we not doing that we did then? Or do people only remember the good parts and forget their children also behaved like that.
I personally as a mother of a toddler found the comments awful. I suspect the mother was not having the time of her life either.

My mum said I was always very placid as a toddler. (And still am) I remember my sister having some major tantrums. But she was never naughty. My parents weren't strict but we were taught our manners and how to behave in public.

I see lots of children behaving very badly these days, and they are allowed to get away with this, as there seems to be no response from a parent who is alongside,,dare I say,they are always on their phones,or just taking no notice at all...

My view is, that years ago, children behaving badly,or running amok around a shop whatever, would get told off meaningfully,and made to listen and take notice. I don't have any sympathy for a parent who seemingly can't control a child. To be able to do so, means that it will be better for you in the long run..

I would have sympathy though, for the person on a long haul flight with a noisy and restless child, as that is a whole different horrible environment to contend with.

Children years ago absolutely had tantrums on planes. At least, based on family legend, I certainly did. This was despite being what was considered at the time an unusually well-behaved child. I rarely had tantrums as a toddler, but picked the middle of a trans-Atlantic flight to have one of the more infamous ones. This would have been just before Christmas (we were travelling to see family) when I was nearly 2, so almost exactly 45 years ago.
No doubt, today I'd be an internet sensation.

I don't think that, for the most part, children's behaviour is worse, I just think that more people are paying attention now.

By hyper inclusivity I mean some kind of fear of ever having a child miss out, it would be mean or unfair. There no merit-based anything in schools in case someone is left out. No competition, no merit based awards. DD is at a hyper inclusive school and when she was in Reception it was great but now she’s in year 4 I really don’t think she’s doing as well as she could or should be doing, I think she’s being let down by the school’s attitude.

And of course there’s no village raising a child because (as has been demonstrated in this very thread) an adult can’t metaphorically slap a child on the wrist for bad behaviour ‘because you don’t know what else might be going on’. So all bad behaviour is just left. Lowest common denominator, just in case...

It’s the triumph of the individual over the communal.

I think it's a mix - there is a lot of rose-tinted view of the past even though we have writing way back to almost the beginning of public writing history of parents complaining about their kids, much of the bad behaviour is more public than ever, and part of the latter is that more kids are expected to do more things in public than they would have in the past.

Fewer kids would be cooped up on planes or taken to the very public location and the more that are, the more likely one is going to behave badly. Previously, it was far more common for kids to be kept out of public sight especially if they could not behave to a standard, but that's much harder to do these days for families and even harder for schools and institutions. When I was in school, in-school suspension was a room by yourself with an adult just outside if you tried to leave (I may have had personal experience of this in multiple schools...), now many schools just don't have the space for that and there is no where else to send them so it's all out there for everyone to see.

I view it similarly to the behaviour of adults. We know, statistically, many types of crime have been on a downward trend for many years, but it's broadcast more and it's very difficult for families to do anything and also hard, for many reasons, for wider parts of society to deal with badly behaved adults.

Modern parents are afraid of being unpopular with their children and therefore aren't the authority figures that our parents' generation were.

Maybe also now that both parents often work full-time they don't have the time to devote to trying to instill better behaviour and buy them more stuff to compensate. Children need quality time with parents rather than things. But kids will always have tantrums if they get away with it.

I think children's behaviour is the same as it ever was.

I think people haven't changed.

I think the level of scrutiny, however, has.

Oh and I think that now everyone is a fucking expert

hazey has said what I wanted to say. Children are children and always have been, they'll sometimes be naughty and they'll sometimes be well behaved, there have always been children at the extreme ends of the behaviour scale, and there have always been parents of varying effectiveness.

Every generation thinks the one following it is doing it all wrong, this is nothing new, but if their way is so great then why did the new generation decide to do it differently...?

Also agree that the level of scrutiny has changed. Time was your DC would throw a tantrum in Tesco and the most you'd have would be a couple of people tutting and muttering, nowadays you'd have some bright spark videoing it and sharing it online, a load of people tweeting about it, and you'd see at least one AIBU that could possibly about it as it looks really similar. Parents today are bombarded with pressure to be perfect and everywhere you look are stories of people doing it better than you as well as judgement tales of people perceived to be doing a bad job of it.

There are children with issues although there seem to be significantly more than in the past - why is that? (Genuine question - are kids labelled as being on the spectrum as a handy label or was it because there is help now where it wasn't in the past?)

"Being on the spectrum" isn't a handy label, it's actually very difficult to get a diagnosis and services are patchy to non-existent depending on where you live.

There seem to be significantly more children with issues now as we've gotten better at recognising these issues. Many children with SN who receive support now, in the past would have been written off as "naughty", "difficult", or "thick". You also see more children with SN now thanks to hard fought for inclusion and provision such as accessible venues, sessions specifically tailored to children with additional needs, SENCO staff in schools, awareness and acceptance campaigns, and so on. There's still much to be done but children with additional needs aren't sequestered at home as much these days which is definitely a good thing.

Parents just won't be firm and say no. I see it with some of my friends. You've got to be willing to have the battle sometimes.
I often get complimented on my kids. Yes they had tantrums etc but I've been firm when I have to and vigilant. I see friends just ignore or turn a blind eye to their kids running riot or being mean to another kid etc. I watched mine like a hawk in the playground, in shops etc. Sure I got told to relax but the thing is I saw bad behaviour and I was on it. I didn't pick battles with everything and I wouldn't say I was overly authoritarian and I never smacked. But for example meaness or rudeness was come down hard on. When I said no then I meant it.
I just see so much wishy washness and a fear of discipline. People seem scared of their kids. So much guilt too. It's okay for them to go without now and then . Obviously not necessities but treats etc.
My MIL would often undermine my discipline. The usual granny thing of 'ach they're so good don't be hard on them here's the 5th biscuit just before tea' kind of thing. I didn't fall out with her because I get it's a granny thing and it's nice to spoil your grandkids. But she disciplined her kids which is why my DH is a lovely guy!

I remember giving mine a warning then I'm removing you from the room etc. And getting funny looks on the odd occasion I had to.
Yeah that's why my kids behave and have always had glowing reports from school and yours are quite frankly rude and ungrateful!

Another observation from my childhood is that we used to play outside more, in quite a wide-ranging way - which was physically more tiring, so I think we had less pent-up energy to be expended on bad behaviour. I get the impression children's exercise nowadays takes the form of organised events, sports clubs and the like - which isn't going to give the same release as 'running wild' would do.

Of course, the darker side to that was less regard was given to safety; also there were fewer cars on the road in the 70s and 80s, so I'm not advocating a return to this way of life - but it might be a reason why children today have to find outlets for their energy in the form of noisy behaviour which wouldn't have been tolerated 40 years ago.

... and of course 40 years ago there were no screens and very little daytime TV for children, so your options for sitting around using no physical or mental energy at all were very limited!

The behaviour hasn't changed much. But management, punishment and acceptance of poor behaviour have definitely changed. It's not the kids job to know how to behave. It's the job of those raising them to model how to behave.
I rarely see any active parenting.
It's lazy.

I honestly believe if iPads/phones/tablets had been an option 30/40 years ago then our parents would have been using them in the same way they're used now. It's all well and good saying "well nowadays parents just stick their kids in front of the iPad, it didn't happen in my day". Well yeah, Brenda, because it wasn't an option in your day but you can bet to shit that if it was you'd have used it.

There was also a tendency to simply not take your children to certain places. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and from the age of 11yo was babysitting. It was really common where we lived that older siblings babysat from around that age and lots of my friends were their family babysitter. I remember being 13yo and looking after my siblings while my parents went to Safeway to get the shopping, sleeping over at my aunt's house to look after her DC (youngest was 6mo!) while she and her DH went to the cinema and for a meal, and aged 17 staying over there with two of her DC (aged 2yo and 4yo) while they went away for the weekend with the older DC because the youngest two would be "bored" on the train and in a hotel.

I honestly believe if iPads/phones/tablets had been an option 30/40 years ago then our parents would have been using them in the same way they're used now

I’m sure that’s probably true.

When I was a kid, late eighties, I saw many young kids (3 and under) strapped in their buggies watching tv in the living room. Thus wouldnt just be while the parent made dinner etc. This was the norm.

@fuzzyface I was exactly like that with my kids and they really were no bother.

I don’t get how people find it so hard these days, is it just laziness?

People have always found it hard but in the past they'd have had to internalise it as there would have been few people to talk to about it outside of their immediate social/family circle whereas now there's the internet and everyone can come together to share their collective experiences, worries, and difficulties.

It's all the same as it always was except now there is a means for people to see/hear/read all about it so it's more visible.

And I don't think laziness factors into it. Parents now are far busier than in previous generations with the expectation being that they will both be working and usually both full time, that the children will go to childcare followed by clubs and activities, that the whole weekend will be dedicated to "quality family time" consisting of more clubs and activities, days out, "making memories", and doing homework/reading/spellings.

One the one occasion I had a tantrum as a child I got such a hot arse I couldn't sit down. After that the threat of the same thing happening made sure I never had another one.

I can remember the sheer boredom of having to visit relatives on a Sunday afternoon and sit in complete silence while the adults talked. Nowadays nobody would expect kids to do that, or if they did go visiting they would have tablets or whatever to provide them with entertainment.

Nowadays nobody would expect kids to do that, or if they did go visiting they would have tablets or whatever to provide them with entertainment.
Bollocks

Cornelia

Me too, you just didn't tantrum, it wasn't acceptable behaviour.
All three of ours tried it once, we just laughed and told them not to be babies, they soon stopped as didn't like to be called a baby.
I think they all try it once, it's how the parents choose to deal with it.
We were quite strict generally as didn't want to make a rod for our own backs, preferring easier parenting.

The behaviour hasn't changed much.
I hugely disagree.
Although I think the vast majority of kids are brilliant the kids with bad behaviour issues ( not due SEN or anyrhing like rhat) are more violent and out of control. I gave examples in my earlier post.
I was hardly ever assaulted at work or had to fill in a serious incident report but its a common occurrence.
The name calling has increased. We are called fat cunts, pricks , and twats by 11 year olds if they don't get their own way or don't want to do a basic task. Quite frankly it's exhausting!! It never used to be as bad as this.

hazeyjane I don't know of any kids nowadays who are expected to do that and it's very rare to see children anywhere who actually sit at a table with some device or other. On my recent holiday it was common to see a family of four with both parents on their phones at the table and two kids on tablets. I didn't see a great deal of families interacting with each other.