Is it all the Tories fault that there's so many homeless people?

[Rosepetalgeranium]

There's so many more homeless thesedays. Is it down to austerity?

Reading some of the posts on here makes me feel desperate and helpless, nothing is going to change in this country, because we're being sold propaganda about it all. UC will continue, people will continue to die if they're not born into the right circumstances, silver spoon and all that.

I've worked hard all my life, but due to unfortunate events happening within the space of six months (parent died, other parent had cancer, marriage broke up, hag to sell marital home to pay off ex's debt, personal illness) I'm now unable to work as I can't leave my house, I'm now feeling worse due to the stress caused by navigating the system to claim a little money to be able to put a roof over my daughter's head and feed her. And no we don't go on holiday, don't have a sky package or a 50" tv, I don't smoke or drink, I struggle to keep dd clothed and in shoes .. and that's before being moved across to UC ... the thought of which is honestly stressing me out all the time, because I'll be moved at some point in the next four years.

If it wasn't for my dd I'd rather be dead than live like this.

Still waiting to read this discrediting of the UN inspectors findings.

Shall I make myself a brew whilst I wait? I'd say should I hold my breath but I'd probably die.

So sorry carrie x

I'm sorry to hear that carrie. I hope things improve inthe new year.

Thank you both and sorry, wasn't looking for sympathy, just tired of this country and this government - sadly don't think - as a staunch labour voter - that there's an alternative at the moment. In this country they only look after the rich.

I've noticed an increase in homelessness. I don't understand fully, but didn't the government change the way housing benefit was paid which made it really risky for private landlords? I think it used to be paid directly, now it's paid to the tenant to pay the landlord, if the tenant doesn't pay then landlord can face months of lost rent and legal costs to evict? Also right to buy, with little new social housing so even harder for people to get a home.

I've also noticed a lot of the homeless locally seem to be from overseas, which wasn't the case previously.

Still waiting to read this discrediting of the UN inspectors findings

The methodology has been discredited, if you can find another study where it involves someone doing 2 weeks of coffee mornings give us a heads up.

If you can also find any respected academic citing this study feel free...

Time for bed lurker, you're repeating yourself to no effect. Now, that evidence you were going to cite . . . Found it yet?

Why do you keep saying the same thing?
"2 weeks of coffee mornings"

That's not what he did at all. He spent 12 days touring the UK and visiting the poorest communities. Speaking with 100s of the poorest in the UK society.
He spent time talking with over 40mps and questioned them at length. One of which was Esther McVey who completely.dismissed what he said and refused to believe there was any problems...

So, and I'll try to keep this very very simple for you, let's imagine:
A Man visits 15 towns.
Man talks with food bank workers.
Man talks to Universal Credit claimants.
Man listens to 150 peoples stories.
Man sits with map.
Man counts how many towns and cities in UK.
Man realises it's likely the same in every town and city.
Man uses his sample size of 150 across 15 towns and cities to form picture of UK.

He only really needed to visit 1 food bank and speak to the people there. Multiply that one food bank by however many the UK has and it'll tell a pretty accurate story.

What do our MPs do? Are they out listening, talking, hearing peoples.concerns? Nope.. they're in food banks using them as photo ops. Smiling and laughing when it's them that's caused the shit storm.

As for the academic papers... You realise he hasn't published his full findings yet right? He's going to present it to the UN in Geneva in 2019.

Now about that discrediting? Anyone? anywhere? No?

And fwiw, the guy that did the tour of the UK wasn't just some random UN worker, the guy is a highly qualified expert in poverty that has conducted the same investigations in many countries including the US.

If Tory voters and MPs are so deluded and messed up that they refuse to believe there's a problem when someone points to it, highlights it and tells them too their faces that there's a problem, that makes the Tories and their supporters fucking idiots at best.

Here you go Just, a whole.collection of reports conducted in the same fashion as the one done in the UK.
Enjoy them.

www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Poverty/Pages/CountryVisits.aspx

Have you read the UN report @Justanotherlurker

It’s actually written by a Professor, he cites plenty of statistics and credible sources.

No one can deny that poverty is increasing in the UK.

What the UN did was put some flesh on the bones of those statistics. He didn’t use his interviews to come to any new conclusions - he was using it to demonstrate what the statistics already show.

There’s a subtle difference.
The politicians were quick to slam it down because of what it said. Because they knew it to be true.

Why do you keep saying the same thing?
"2 weeks of coffee mornings"

OK, go on ...

He spent 12 days touring the UK and visiting the poorest communities. Speaking with 100s of the poorest in the UK society.

LOL that is confirming my point if you like it or not.

It’s actually written by a Professor, he cites plenty of statistics and credible sources.

I have read it, and no there isn't, its a political leaning hack piece.

No one can deny that poverty is increasing in the UK.

I'm not denying it, I am saying it is far more complex than just pointing the finger at the tories as it ignores not only world wide trends but has many implications that a lot of you will jump through mental hoops to still try and blame "le evil tories"

The politicians were quick to slam it down because of what it said. Because they knew it to be true.

The politicians where quick to slam it down because it was based on a self referring anecdotal pretending it was statistical and extrapolate that into a world wide/european issue, considering there is no comparable data collection in other countries should highlight the issue.

It is nothing more than Channel 5 or 4 doing the benefit street "scrounger" thing, it just suits your agenda to believe it.

Divide and conquer at its best.

I've interrupted "Luther" for this? Pish tush.

Justanotherlurker

Blah blah blah blah..
Blah blah.
Blah..

And still no evidence or source for your claim.

Oh and also:
It’s actually written by a Professor, he cites plenty of statistics and credible sources.

I have read it, and no there isn't, its a political leaning hack piece.

Please see attached photograph, this is not example taken from the UN report, it shows sources used to draw information used in the report. There are many sections throughout the report that have these "Citations" detailed at the bottom.
Are you sure you read it?

I've interrupted "Luther" for this? Pish tush.

What a shame, you even had to post as well, it's traumatic I'm sure.

Have you found any academic proof of sourcing of this UN piece statistically yet, or offer anything up on the OP or are you here to try and pick apart my general argument and think you have found a gotcha.

Considering I didn't ping you it looks like you was on a filler episode of Luther, @longwayoff

I'm blaming the Tories, drugs and alcohol. In that order.

Have you found any academic proof of sourcing of this UN piece statistically yet

The report cites many many many many sources in the report.. anywhere a fact, figure, quote or reference is used there is a little number next to it.. that number is also found in the cotton's section... That then links to the source of the information..

I don't know how much clearer the report can be..

Government is causing misery for lots of people, lists all of its sources and references and the writer of the report personally met people being most impacted by the government.
If you can't see the evidence and take facts as facts... Well let just say there's no point trying to clean a blackened window.

Tedious rather than traumatic, lurker, just wanted an update on those sources you insist exist, yet still fail, to supply. Hence my irritation.

It is not exclusively down to the Tories (or the Blair government which was Tory in red clothes when it came to housing), but it is a very large part I think. In terms of housing, we have had Tories in power at least since 1979, if not 1970.

It is not exclusively down to the Tories (or the Blair government which was Tory in red clothes when it came to housing)

Ah the old 'not true labour' get out clause.. which somehow ignores that the rise of homeless is on the rise is a Europe wide issue, cue the mental gymnastics of being anti neoliberal and no doubt being anti brexit

@longwayoff

Tedious rather than traumatic, lurker, just wanted an update on those sources you insist exist, yet still fail, to supply. Hence my irritation.

As you are here to pick up on my points then, maybe you could cite some proof that what is essentially an op-ed piece is respected in the wider academic circle. I mean speaking to a few hundred people over 12 days (i used that term as apparently staying for 2 weeks holding coffee mornings is somehow disingenuous) would not pass any peer review.

Bear in mind that I have not said there is no problem, I stated that the situation is far more complex than just blaming the tories, the only reason the UN report came up was because someone couldn't come back with an answer that wasn't "muh evil tories" when it was highlighted the rising homeless issues is not in any way confined to the uk.

This is my last comment on this tiresome and cyclical waste of time. There are numerous citations previously quoted re the UN report (thank you klutzy) which you have failed, and failed again, to refute with reliable evidence of your own. Therefore there is nothing to add.

@longwayoff

This is my last comment on this tiresome and cyclical waste of time.

Should we somehow be grateful of your apparent appeal to authority?

There are numerous citations previously quoted re the UN report (thank you klutzy) which you have failed, and failed again, to refute with reliable evidence of your own. Therefore there is nothing to add.

So basically, your answer is no, the citations are other UN reports, if you don't believe in experts and just blindly follow the appeal to authority fallacy thats ok, just own it.

The fact that I have had to waste my time replying to this rather than re watching the wire is just tiresome..

Still, internet gold star for you for trying.

Justanotherlurker

I can't be bothered to pick apart your posts any more.
I can't afford the train ticket to cloud cuckoo land where you are.

So well done, you've proven the tactics taken by morons really do work.. just repeat yourself blindly till no one can be arsed to argue any more.

Well.done.. tick that box on your win sheet.

I can't be bothered to pick apart your posts any more.

What posts have you picked apart?

Was it the point where you tried to say I was wrong for saying it was essentially an op-ed piece with no grounding in statistical analysis by holding coffee mornings for 2 weeks, with which you came back by saying he spent 12 days speaking to hundreds of people, or maybe it was you citing other UN reports done on other countries in some kind of appeal to authority?

I can't afford the train ticket to cloud cuckoo land where you are.

And I don't own enough crayons to draw you a simple diagram you will understand.

So well done, you've proven the tactics taken by morons really do work.. just repeat yourself blindly till no one can be arsed to argue any more.

Calling me a moron now, was this the highbrow picking apart my posts you was talking about, because resorting to ad hominem attacks severely belittles your argument.

I will give you two questions to pick apart.

1.) if homelessness isthe sole issue of the tories why is the figure rising across europe.

2.) find any reputable source that cites what is essentially an op ed piece.

Because so far @KlutzyDraconequus

This statement:

Well.done.. tick that box on your win sheet.

Shows more about your intentions than it does about you arguing in good faith.