Is it all the Tories fault that there's so many homeless people?

[Rosepetalgeranium]

There's so many more homeless thesedays. Is it down to austerity?

There are enough houses in physical terms - they just cost far too much. Building more houses does fuck all because they’re still too expensive
This⤴️

But the Tories have introduced more powers to local councils to combat them and build more homes.
That will be news to the LGA
as they are still working hard to get right to buy abolished
and would love councils to be allowed to invest their reserves in domestic property for rent
rather than having to fight over commercial property to rent

(the madness that a council can buy the freehold of a mercedes dealership, but not a house)

Justanotherlurker My understanding of 'inactive' migrants would be economically inactive/not in paid employment. I can see the argument for following the precedence in the rest of the EU for tighter immigration particularly of young unemployed people with no ties here, but that's only part of the all inactive migrants which would also include spousal migrants who do unpaid care for their families/SAHP (mainly women) and retirees who have been here decades (many, along with the SAHMs, who are already badly affected by the law changes over the last few years as some still struggle to prove continuous residency to get BRP even having ILR for many years, without which excludes a non-EU migrant from paid employment) among others.

We already have enough issues with the clusterfuck going on with the government messing with the Windrush migrants, we don't want to pull decades more migrants into that to get all inactive migrants. That won't solve anything.

I agree homelessness is a complicated issue and the many of the Tory policies (and EU policies on austerity) haven't helped. Better and more accessible mental health care, hostels, affordable housing...I think all are parts of the puzzle, but not the complete story. Finding solutions to such inequalities and suffering often involves many pieces - and even then, not all could be brought in if they refuse.

Its pointless going back in time, the crisis is now! & i don't get the EU argument, the vast majority have jobs and work, anyone falling into crisis isn't going to be able to rent a house (council or otherwise) or get a mortgage, so working migrants are not the cause.

It's not pointless going back in time, especially on partisan inducing threads like this, the country doesn't reset everytime a different party takes power, to try and pinpoint the situation of the homeless today just on the Tories is illinformed, even if New Labour is not true labour, they along with Thatcher have played a part.

It also misses the point that homeless is an issue EU wide, so punches a hole in the 'austerity, tories' being solely responsible.

amp.theguardian.com/housing-network/2018/mar/23/homelessness-european-problem-uk-rise

Also EU is brought up because it's become a gotcha for some vocal remainers against leavers, that we can deport in active EU migrants, there is a reason why the homeless man dying on the steps on the houses of parliament that Corbyn tried to highlight gained little traction..

Trying to muddy my language with speaking about working EU migrants is not really fair, as you knew where I was coming from

The UK's housing market issues can be solved by the UK government inside or outside the EU

All it takes is some political will
to break the control of the big developers
and to alter the investment rules for councils

Two statutory instruments

• one to charge rates on land as soon as there OPP
• the other to allow councils to purchase or buy housing to rent it out

would do the trick

The UK's housing market issues can be solved by the UK government inside or outside the EU

Of course it can, I stated similar on page 1, the problem is the electorate who instead of having a basic understanding of the economic complexities of a globalised economy want their personal house to continue to rise in price, nimby-ism is not in any stretch a partisan issue.

That's not to say that just increasing housebuilding will solve the issue, there are so many contributing factors and there is no quick fix and it's foolish and illinformed to solely blame the Tories and think if Corbyn was in power it would be eradicated

Justanotherlurker

It is pointless because the Tories have been in power for 8 years, so whilst Blair/Major etc played their part in creating a so called home owning democracy, we still need to care for those who cannot cope for whatever reason.

It is not rocket science to provide a bed and food for the vast majority on our streets, it just takes the Will to do so and this government hasn't got it, they seem to think that we all have the same abilities and drive, we all have loving families to fall back on and that no child suffers any form of abuse.

If the money earmarked for corp tax cuts was diverted to homelessness, the problem would soon be much reduced,
If May at the drop of hat is prepared to spend billions replicating the Galileo GPS system, then there is surely enough to help those living on the street?

Its about priorities.

My mum has been on and off homeless for years. It has been getting increasingly more difficult for her to stay housed.

Prior to being made homeless, she lived in a council flat, her housing benefit was paid directly to the council and her council tax paid. She claimed ESA as she has a brain injury that means her higher functioning is affected. She can’t really think through consequences and will lie constantly.

First of all she got taken of ESA and on JSA, she misses her work appointments and lies about looking for work so her benefits got sanctioned, she got in arrears, she got evicted.

Then she could never get rehoused through the council as she’d been evicted once. She relied on private landlords. Then she started getting universal credit all paid to her, no housing benefit. She will spend it all in one go, then be evicted.

There used to be more supported living. Hostels with support workers who could help.

Now she is completely expected to manage everything herself despite her mental health problems. Therefore she is always being made homeless and can not get rehoused again as deposits, even on rooms, are so high. She is 59 and has spent months at a time being street homeless. It’s disgusting.

I cannot have her living with me as she steals off me and sells my belongings.

That's not to say that just increasing housebuilding will solve the issue
House building and housing supply are two entirely different issues
there are over a million under occupied homes in the UK

But its about aligning rights and reponsibilities
Councils have the responsibility but not the right
Persimmon and their ilk have the right not the responsibility

That needs sorting
Any party can do it, inside the EU or outside
but they have to want to

FuzzyShadowChatter

I agree it's complex with the inactive terminology, but if we had followed EU presidents we have every right to deport homeless EU migrants, that is a gotcha from a lot of vocal remainers (some who are on this thread) against leavers.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong policy, just higighting it's far more complex than the partisan shite some are trying to paint.

If we keep it somewhat insular, it ignores a whole host of issues EU wide, and is just trying to bang a political drum to point fingers at the opposition without offering anything above the intellect of 'tories are evil!1!1"

Exactly, Sharp, people who are disabled are being blamed and punished.

Any party can do it, inside the EU or outside
but they have to want to

Not sure why you are highlighting inside/outside the EU, you are ignoring that the house owning electorate across political stripes are the drag on building new houses, we have had 2 decades of ever rising house prices and no political party wants to be in power during a crash, hence (in some part)propping up the banks and the introduction of HTB etc, (not getting into the rights and wrongs)

Despite all this, to pretend it's a magic wand inside or outside the EU is not taking into effect many many external factors (inside or outside the EU) and to try and pin it solely on the Tories or austerity shows a lack of understanding as to how we, and the rest of the EU have a growing homeless population, its on the intellectual level of trying to invoke godwins law and equate Tories to the 1930's

House ownership
and social housing should not be connected
those who will need council housing will never earn enough to buy a house

• that is why Maggie had to bring in such huge discounts at the start of "right to buy"

A proper steady supply of social housing will stall house price growth
but as the market turnover is under 5%a year
will not cause a crash

The problem existed before the Brexit vote
It will exist after Brexit
the UK has different housing rules than the rest of the EU
do not drag other countries into our mess

If we keep it somewhat insular, it ignores a whole host of issues EU wide, and is just trying to bang a political drum to point fingers at the opposition without offering anything above the intellect of 'tories are evil!

Sorry but all you seem to be doing is passing the buck from Thatcher to Blair to its now an EU wide problem!!!
We can critic all the previous European administrations since the War but it doesn't help one jot the man or woman cold an hungry in a doorway.

I've given you a clear example of where the Government could find the money IF they had the will.

Oh and until recently the Home Office was rounding up EU (rough sleepers) citizens and holding them indefinitely, a practice stopped by the High court.

It is pointless because the Tories have been in power for 8 years, so whilst Blair/Major etc played their part in creating a so called home owning democracy, we still need to care for those who cannot cope for whatever reason*

It is pointless and a basic lack of knowledge in thinking that 8 years in power is the sole reason why we have the current problem, not only that, but to think we can undo decades worth of contributing factors and resolve issues that are EU wide as being just a Tory issue because they are currently in power is nothing other than partisan shite

It is not rocket science to provide a bed and food for the vast majority on our streets, it just takes the Will to do so and this government hasn't got it, they seem to think that we all have the same abilities and drive, we all have loving families to fall back on and that no child suffers any form of abuse

You are ignoring the nimby electorate, there has even been threads on here where people are worried about proposed HMO's being built nearby and they are worried for their children and house prices, that filled up pretty quickly with saying she YANBU and let's face it, MN is not a Tory at Dr omg hold..

If the money earmarked for corp tax cuts was diverted to homelessness, the problem would soon be much reduced,
If May at the drop of hat is prepared to spend billions replicating the Galileo GPS system, then there is surely enough to help those living on the street?

I would expect someone such as yourself to present a better non partisan argument than that, especially considering you are a remainer...

Councils have the responsibility but not the right
that makes it sound as if they have been deliberately placed in a bind?

Sorry but all you seem to be doing is passing the buck from Thatcher to Blair to its now an EU wide problem!!!

You seem to be reading what you want, I'm trying to point out it's not a simple scenario of "it's the Tories fault"

It's not too hard to grasp.

I've given you a clear example of where the Government could find the money IF they had the will.

You did, but being a remainer and coming out with such an argument, shoes you are not treating the issue in good faith and can't help yourself in turning into a partisan issue

The cuts to local authority funding are supposed to be balanced out by an increase in business rates and council tax funding. It's very simple. One goes down whilst the other two increase.
EXCEPT
Council Tax increases are capped.
Business rates depend on an old model of funding that failed to take account of online business that doesn't fund local businesses and places an unfair burden on them.
Combine that with high rents due to high property values, UC and wages not increasing and you have a perfect storm.
Ministers always insist efficiency savings can be found without any evidence and in year 1 & 2 that might be true but by year 8 it probably isn't. Stuff that can be cut in the short term such as preventative stuff has a long term knock on effect that costs more in the long term.

Well tories are the ones who could do something about helping the homeless but seems they're still to busy fighting amongst themselves.

I think it’s a multi factorial problem but imo a major cause was when housing benefit started to be paid directly to tenants rather than landlords. This resulted in rents not being paid by some tenants and evictions and homelessness increased. Landlords were also as a result forbidden by the terms of their mortgage letting properties to those on HB because the likelihood of rents not being pAid. Some people like Sharp’s dm are too vulnerable to manage their own affairs and as a result end up homeless.

so Macron can implement labour reform like Thatcher.

You mean reduce workers' rights, which is what she did. I earn less now in real terms than I did in 1991 when my eldest was born. Back then my job was well paid, and my income was enough for our little family to live on. Now that income wouldn't pay the rent and Council Tax for that house. I'm aware that major was in charge post '90 but Thatcher's policies were still in place, and were post '97. Blair truly was Thatcher's child.

Austerity doesn't work for poor people. Look how many of us are now homeless when there are empty houses.

Sharpandshiny you can get the rent part paid direct to the landlord with UC you just need to ask and articulate why you need this done which is unfortunately the start of a complex conversation someone with a brain injury doesn't stand a chance of dealing with as they will insist they can't when they bloody well can!

Justanotherlurker

for me ts not a partisan issue and only you have said that it is but you cannot escape the simple fact that if funding to local councils is cut to the bone across all services then something has to give, be it homelessness or the closure of women's refuges ... all part of the same issues.. lack of funding!!!! and who has caused that i wonder?

Of course if we remained, then the money earmarked for the replacement Galileo could then be spent on other things...not rocket science! and the point i was trying to make.

More could be done on sanctions and the introduction of UC, which even the home sec admits has caused a rise in food bank use, which is one step away from homelessness.

Yes its a good point on people not wanting to have the homeless housed near them, however, we are nowhere near that problem at the moment!

Is is pointless going back in time unless you’re prepared to learn from the lessons of the past.

If people are just going backwards to get into the whole blame game, without coming up with tangible solutions, then they’re no better than the politicians who got us into this mess.

Homelessness has risen massively under the Tory government. It went down under Labour.... i would like to know why but can guess that UC plays a massive part in this.

UC has been a mess - because it’s actually a sledgehammer, one size fits all approach which doesn’t work.

Housing costs are astronomical along with childcare costs making it difficult for those on low paid incomes.

Furthermore, privatising the rental market (which the right to buy policy has effectively done) means that renting a home is insecure and full of cowboy landlords.

We definitely need to get rid of cowboy landlords