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Original poster

DS (15) helps with a Brownie pack for his DofE award. Do you think this is a bit odd?

111 replies

ScottishG · 15/09/2018 23:26

DS is 15. Since the beginning of the year he's been helping with a Brownie group for his bronze and silver Duke of Edinburgh award. He really enjoys it and seems to get stuck in with the activities and enjoys getting to know the girls. The leader is a work friend of mine.
I thought nothing of it, in fact I thought it was a good idea, particularly as DS is interested in becoming a paediatrician.
However, my mum seems to think it's a bit weird and has been asking if any of the parents have complained about the girls having a male helper. She can be a bit conservative in her views but it got me thinking. What would you think if a 15 year old boy was helping out at your dd's Brownie group?

OP posts:

MrsSteveMcDonald · 17/09/2018 17:04

If he wanted to he could become a Ranger and share a tent with other 14-18 girls and as leaders we wouldn't be allowed to tell parents. All he would need to do is say the magic words 'I identify as a girl'. That's far worse than him simply volunteering and yet this policy has been sneaked in by CHQ without publicising.

viques · 17/09/2018 18:00

Saying that Brownies should be an all girls space is a bit like saying male teachers can't teach in all girls schools, or female teachers teach in boys schools.

I think it could be a very healthy thing for girls to learn that not all boys and men are obsessed with football, farting and X box ! Many girls will be from families where there might not be a supportive male role model, there are all too few male teachers in primary schools and anyway the relationship with a teacher is not the same as that of a young leader, who incidentally , would be seen as deferring to the Brown Owl, so another positive female/male dynamic.

Aragog · 17/09/2018 18:03

Saying that Brownies should be an all girls space is a bit like saying male teachers can't teach in all girls schools, or female teachers teach in boys schools.

Similar situation - the 'group' or school in this case is for girls only. However, the leaders, or teachers, can be either sex. Likewise, the volunteers can be either sex.

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15 year olds

SponsoredFred · 17/09/2018 18:54

viques and many girls wont be able to attend; because they are not allowed to socialise with boys. But never mind, as long as the boy get his DoE huh

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/09/2018 18:58

However, the leaders, or teachers, can be either sex. Likewise, the volunteers can be either sex.

And the Guides / Brownies / Rainbows can be either sex too.

viques · 18/09/2018 12:13

sponsoredfred do you think this is a mindset that should be encouraged in the 21st century? don't get me wrong, I fully support the protection of women only spaces, but segregating little children by saying boys and girls shouldn't socialise is not how I see the way forward for our society, or indeed for the cultures where that is the current norm.

Chocolala · 18/09/2018 12:20

It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. Helpers are there to help keep the activities on track, and are vital. And they’re rather hard to find!

BiddyPop · 18/09/2018 12:25

Not all Beavers and Cubs are mixed, some are still boys only.

We have a mixed troupe, and we get both girls from the Girls Scout section, and boys from the Boys Scout section, coming to help out with Cubs for their Gaisce Award (President's Award - very similar to DofE).

Some years we get both, some years only from 1, and some years only from the other, section.

And I remember 2 Scouts coming on our Guide camp in the past - they were a DS and a DB of 2 of our leaders respectively, and had their own tent on the far side of the leaders tents from the Guides. But it was great having them around (not least because we actually did some pioneering on that one - as they could show us cos our leaders weren't good at it and never did). And I don't remember any parents having a hissy fit about it.

If Brownies was stuck for leaders, wouldn't it be the same if a DFather volunteered where a DMother was unable?

PrueDent · 18/09/2018 12:39

In some cultures girls are not allowed to mix with boys. Whether we think this is wrong or right, it happens. Fact.

Girlguiding was developed as a girl-only group, Not in order to exclude boys, but to include those girls who may otherwise be excluded of boys were present. If girls want to mix with boys, or if boys want to mix with girls then there is the scouting movement (or indeed almost any other activity) available to them.

With girlguiding any girl can go to any activity/meeting in any unit in any country and be assured of being in a girl-only environment.

This is from the girlguiding website:

In addition to providing a ‘girl only’ space for our young members, we are committed to ensuring our young members have female role models in leadership within Girlguiding. In order to support this, roles such as Unit Leader, can only be undertaken by female members.

Whilst some roles are restricted to only being held by women, adult males (18+) are welcome to join the charity in a variety of other volunteer roles.

I can't find anything about males of under 18 being admitted in any role. Therefore, I can understand why someone would question his involvement in this girl-only organisation.

JynxaSmoochum · 18/09/2018 13:01

I was a leader before having babies which happened to be sons. Girl Guiding rules allow me to bring my "leader's children" of the opposite sex and out of age range of the unit (subject to age ratios, and appropriate safeguarding of sleeping/ toileting arrangements). My choice is to bring young sons regularly or quit to the detriment of the unit and Girl Guiding can't afford to haemorrage experienced leaders because they gave birth to the wrong sex of child. If I had left because I had sons, there have been several times when our unit would have been in jepoardy.

Unless my DSs announced that "I identify as a girl" they can't be a member taking their promise or collect badges/ awards. In reality they tend to lurk in a corner or dip in and out of activities of interest, but don't interact with the Brownies much even though one of them now has classmates there.

There is a difference in accepting a male leader like OP's son or the necessity of a leader's male child there compared to mixed sex membership. It doesn't undermine the predominantly female atmosphere of the unit. It is an open fact that there are a couple of males around our unit within Girl Guiding rules. We're not in an area with cultures that favour single sex environments although I can never vow that an individual with that requirement would come forwards, if they did, it would be suggested that one of the other packs in the neighbourhood would be more appropriate to their needs.

Ultimately, if there aren't the Leaders or Unit Helpers, there are no Guiding Units at all.

SponsoredFred · 18/09/2018 17:02

viques whether i think that should be encouraged is totally irrelevant. There ARE lots of girls who are not allowed to socialise with boys. There are girls is our unit who would not be allowed to attend if boys were there. Do you think we should be including boys at the risk of marginalising those girls further? We also have a number of leaders who wouldnt go on over night trips with male volunteers...probably wouldnt lead/volunteer for a mixed sex group at all

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