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Original poster

DS (15) helps with a Brownie pack for his DofE award. Do you think this is a bit odd?

111 replies

ScottishG · 15/09/2018 23:26

DS is 15. Since the beginning of the year he's been helping with a Brownie group for his bronze and silver Duke of Edinburgh award. He really enjoys it and seems to get stuck in with the activities and enjoys getting to know the girls. The leader is a work friend of mine.
I thought nothing of it, in fact I thought it was a good idea, particularly as DS is interested in becoming a paediatrician.
However, my mum seems to think it's a bit weird and has been asking if any of the parents have complained about the girls having a male helper. She can be a bit conservative in her views but it got me thinking. What would you think if a 15 year old boy was helping out at your dd's Brownie group?

OP posts:
EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/09/2018 06:52

So those saying it's a 'single gender' thing, so males have no business there ...

Are you talking about sex or gender, Dragons?

SponsoredFred · 17/09/2018 07:00

In that case then dragons, then it would be good to keep female carers only, yes

StealthPolarBear · 17/09/2018 07:04

" there are girls who would not be allowed for religious or family reasons to join a mixed sex organization."
Have the people saying how marvellous it all is read this?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

15 year olds
Starlight345 · 17/09/2018 07:05

Brownies and cubs are constantly desperate for helpers. None of the parents will complain because they don’t want to volunteer

Farahilda · 17/09/2018 07:23

The volunteering side of Brownies and Girl Guides has never been single sex.

Why are people trying to insist that it ever has been, and that this is a new encroachment on a (unicorn) single sex 'space'?

Brownies is girl only for membership only. Never for leaders nor for those who come in to lead specific activities.

I think that is a very unfortunately narrow viewpoint, to the point of being blinkered. It does both sexes grave disservice.

After all, single sex schools have both sexes of teacher, the Mothers' Union had a male president (who was roundly supported on MN, because it should always be how the person does the role that matters most)

VikingVolva · 17/09/2018 07:27

"" there are girls who would not be allowed for religious or family reasons to join a mixed sex organization."
Have the people saying how marvellous it all is read this?

Well, if the families are that strict, the DDs could never have joined the Brownies, as they have always welcomed both sexes as volunteers/leaders. Perhaps attention should be on how to influence such families into views more aligned with the mainstream rather than demanding that Brownies change their longstanding policy on eligibility for a volunteer role ?

AdventuringThroughLife · 17/09/2018 07:27

Because its a boy in a girls group!!!

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 07:28

My DDs Brownie unit has the adult son of Brown Owl as a helper. He is in his twenties and has helped out since he was a teenager. The girls like him and if he didn’t volunteer then there wouldn’t be a group.

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 07:30

Also as others have said guiding leaders have always been able to be of either sex.

Treasure114 · 17/09/2018 07:30

Brownies is specifically single sex for a reason. That shouldn’t be dismissed because a Male needs to get a tick on a chart or fancies a hobby

This ^

Why can't women and girls have any spaces just for them? Can't he volunteer with the Scouts instead?!

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/09/2018 07:31

The volunteering side of Brownies and Girl Guides has never been single sex.

Sure. And what I'm saying is that by their own admission, now the membership isn't single sex either. There are far bigger issues than a teenage boy volunteering.

Aragog · 17/09/2018 07:36

But the volunteering side has always allowed makes hasn't it?

Whilst a man can't be a leader they've always been allowed to be a helper, from what I remember.
I remember male helpers when I was a brownies many years ago. Think the one there most was the husband of a leader.

And cubs etc allowed female leaders and helpers when they were only open to boys.

He hasn't 'joined' the brownie club. He's just offering assistance, to which it seems none of the parents have actually complained about anyway.

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 07:37

You can’t reverse engineer Brownies to support your current political agenda.
I’m a big supporter of female only safe spaces but Brownies has never fallen into this category.
Yes the members are all girls which is a good thing because they will feel more confident at trying new things in a single sex environment but leadership never has been single sex nor should it be.
Girls need positive male role models as well as female ones. It is good for girls to see men in traditionally female caring roles. Rigid gender roles are at the core of the current problems around the trans debate. It can only be good to see men doing ‘female’ things but still very much being men instead of saying only women can do this.

AvoidingDM · 17/09/2018 08:02

Given children are petty poor at guessing ages of big people, 15 yo who presents himself as an adult / leader / helper will be see by children as that.
Hes not a peer so the girls still have a girl group run by women and a man helper.

gilmoregal · 17/09/2018 08:10

I'm probably going to get jumped on for this but why do children need a female only space that excludes adult/teenage males?

I agree that a female only activity is important but surely that only excludes male peers? A 15 year old is not their peer.

It wouldn't be appropriate if the girls were say 12 and over due to crushes, feeling embarrassed doing activities etc and it would ruin their safe space.

Brownies though are under 10's so a 15 year old will seem like an adult to them surely.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/09/2018 08:30

NO. The membership isn't single sex any more. It's "single-gender". Open to males who identify as girls.

SponsoredFred · 17/09/2018 08:48

Plenty of opportunities for positive male role models in life. Why cant girls have female role models at brownies/guides? Why the insistemce thay girls should not have female only spaces?

Amaaboutthis · 17/09/2018 08:50

Totally not a problem at all

Miladymilord · 17/09/2018 08:50

I wouldn't think he was a sex pest but it would irritate me as I would like brownies to remain a single sex environment

HermioneGoesBackHome · 17/09/2018 08:58

Honestly, i had to read the the OP twice as well as the title to understand what was the issue. It never crossed my mind that it wouod be an issue for your ds to help with the Brownies.

As for ‘women only spaces’, well, I wouod assume that
1- the people running the group would t have said yes if they had an issue with him, as a boy, been there.
2- that, if it had been a major issue, parents wouod have said so
3- that if Brownies are now set to be a femal only space, doesn’t it mean that no man/boy ever could come and do some activities with them? So they go out to do an activity for the day, it has to be run only by women etc... to preserve that? Or the ‘girls/women’ only space applies to whoever is a MEMBER of the group rather than people helping?

Fwiw, i think’ there is à need for women’s spaces. I also think that insisting on ALWAYS having x group been a man free space is segregating ourselves when it’s not needed. It’s doesn’t help imo.

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 09:24

I hope everyone agast at men helping in Guiding has made sure they are volunteering so we can get the groups completely single sex. Or does your support for these groups only extend to sniping about the male volunteers who have actually got off their arses to make these groups possible?

Beamur · 17/09/2018 09:34

If you're aghast at men helping, you really need to look at the policy for accepting boys if they identify as girls into the groups and men who identify as women as Leaders.
Girls who identify as boys however, may be asked to leave.
Guides has said it is now single gender, not single sex.
But going to the point of the OP, I don't think it's weird to have a teenage boy helping out. As long as it's being done openly, with appropriate safeguarding and procedures.

SponsoredFred · 17/09/2018 09:42

gamer no men make our group possible. Lots of women do. I would happily volunteer if needed. We have loads of helpers

gamerwidow · 17/09/2018 09:47

SponsoredFred
That’s great but can you say the same about the troop down the road and are you sure there’s not a massive waiting list because there’s not enough local groups too?

SponsoredFred · 17/09/2018 10:09

I can say that for our local groups, yes. I cant talk about the situation nationally or internationally

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