Will there come a time when school holidays aren't so often or so long?

[QueenOfIce]

Do we really need 6 weeks for summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks in Dec etc etc?

Is it really so knackering to be at school 5 days a week for 6 weeks that a 2 week break is needed?

With the rising cost of childcare I wonder if we'll ever see a reduction in school holidays?

How many weeks in total are children in school in the countries with longer summer holidays?

In the UK I think our children are at school for 39 weeks in a year. If children in other countries are at school for less than 39 weeks do they have longer school days? If not how come our children aren't better educated? Perhaps our whole education system needs looking at.

UK is 190 days a year.
Canada is 190
USA it's 180 days a year
Australia is 200
France 160

These are similar nations to ours.

Japan and China highest at 230 and 220 respectively but I think UK culture is a long way off those countries. Both are far more respectful of education and the processes behind it and wider society is totally different to ours. Chinese work longest school hours too.

I'd much rather the holidays were spread more evenly through the year rather than being lumped together in the summer

I will admit that having grown up in the US and having 3 months off for summer holidays, I think 6 weeks is too short. But then, I think practically mandatory nursery at 3yo and full time school at 4yo is too young as well. And yes, I know nursery isn't "mandatory" but my God, the pressure and comments if you don't put your child in are unbelievable. "They'll be so far behind all the other children - left out of the friendship groups - don't you want them to do well? etc etc" Actually I want them to be able to be children and not pushed so hard and tested so much.

Yes yes HEinLondon! I've an almost 4 year old who isn't in nursery. When people realise they look at me like I am mad and can't understand why I wouldn't want to "get my child ready for school" etc. He's only 3!

Hein going by previous poster the total holidays arent dissimilar. What other days / holidays did you get?

Re what other holidays we had, here's a link to the school schedule for a school district not far from where I grew up, maybe that will give you an idea. First day of school is 27 August 2018, last day of school is 29 May 2018.

am.lqpv.org/common/pages/DisplayFile.aspx?itemId=15254555

The issue about kids needing a break is irrelevant when you are a working parent and have to resort to childcare, it involves getting up at the usual time, being out all day and coming home at the usual time. Sure, they are not in the classroom but they don’t get a proper break. So they may as well be at school.
Holiday clubs are not comparable with school.

Austerity and ever-growing pension contributions are unlikely to leave extra pots of money available for schools.

dameofdilemma

The school day would build in time to provide additional support to children falling behind, allow longer for children to reflect and learn, teach life skills as well as the curriculum.

Two things
Define life skills and why should they be taught in school? they used to be taught at home.
Additional support is about money and being able to employ people.

Before/after school care would be standardised across schools rather than a hotch potch cobbled together, favouring those with money, sharp elbows and luck. It would target and prioritise those children needing the most support.

The clue is in before and after school

School holiday clubs would be standardised across the country, again targeting those children most in need, providing academic support as well as enrichment. They wouldn't vary in quality or be only for those with ample money.

The words that need highlighting are School holiday

So two out of your three are nothing to do with school and the third is where the MPs come in.

"I'd much rather the holidays were spread more evenly through the year rather than being lumped together in the summer"

I wouldn't. It is much nicer to have holidays in what should be the nicest time of year weatherwise.

Boney - I think you've missed the point of my post. My post was about what children need. It wasn't saying teachers should deliver all those needs. A whole range of paid professionals would be required. And I do mention funding.

As for why 'life skills' aren't instead taught at home - because we live in a society (I hope) who cares for children who (through no fault of their own) are inadequately cared for at home. Again, my post didn't say teachers should fill in the gaps.

There are many reasons the school structure hasn't changed for decades:

• because its easier to maintain the status quo and change is difficult, frightening and requires effort and above all, money;
• because teaching is already a stressful profession struggling to retain staff, why risk destabilising it even more;
• because it suits many parts of society for women to be (unpaid) prime carers and to have to resort to underpaid, undervalued part-time work that men choose not to do.

I can't in all honestly add 'because it best meets childrens' needs' to that list.

My DC school now only has 5 weeks in the summer (2 weeks in oct). We hate it, seems far too short!

6 weeks is too long for ds. I don't necessarily think he needs longer term times but he does need the structure and facilities that his special school provides. There is nothing for children like him in the school holidays.

If it’s childcare so that parents can work that’s the problem, people need to lobby for better, more widely available, flexible childcare affordable childcare or more flexible working patterns, not just more school.

@tobee
It's not about parents. It's not about facilitating childcare. It's about children and their needs. I find it odd that you don't see that.

I think a country's education system helps prepare children for adulthood in that society and it needs to work for both children and that society's current needs. Here in the USA, children have a 12-week summer break and I don't see how that helps them or anyone else. They forget what they've learned, despite doing summer work, and inevitably get bored because most families just can't provide a stimulating environment for 12 weeks.

We all start planning for it in the winter, I made a spreadsheet mapping out which camps we can afford, possible childcare swaps, plus a week or so of actual holiday. I know children who are stuck in camp for 9 weeks, or shunted from relative to relative over the summer. Parents don't want to do this, but there's no other option when they only get 4 weeks annual leave.

The schedule was designed for the olden days, when children helped out with the harvest. Now it doesn't work for the kids nor anyone else!

dameofdilemma

and yet my points still stand, only the first half of your points is about the children, the rest is about the parents and that includes your longer school day.

If we (the royal we) were really bothered about children we would employ more professionals to be able to meet the needs of the children in the time that we have.
If we were bothered we would force the government to allow schools to be able to run a range of curricula so that all of the pupils needs are met.

It's not about parents. It's not about facilitating childcare. It's about children and their needs.

I agree.

If parents are needing better childcare to cover holidays and wrap around care, then the solution should lie in that area, not in just sending children to school for longer.

As a country we should look at better out of school childcare options.
Yes, some of these could be located within school premises to make things easier for parents, but they shouldn't just lie in schooling and more of the same.

So - better wrap around care, located near to or on school premises, run (and paid to) by other staff and companies, and not just education based activities - more extra curricular options, or even just the chance for children to be children - to play and run around, and have fun.

And - better holiday care for all ages of children, and for those children with additional needs. Located within the locality, accessible to children from a range of schools - encouraging children to mix with others outside their small school circle. Better financing options for those on lower incomes, with increased use of salary sacrifice and paying pre tax, etc. Wider range of activities available for all interests, and to cover working hours. But again, also just the chance for children to play together and not just more lessons.

As for life skills - yes, add some of them but never forget the key that actually life skills ought to be taught at home more than elsewhere. It should be a key role for parents to do this.

We also need better flexible working conditions for parents, for both mothers and fathers, but without then negatively impacting on those who are child-free or who have adult children.

I'd much rather the holidays were spread more evenly through the year rather than being lumped together in the summer

I don't. I don't want more holidays in the colder and wetter months. Unless you can afford to take these holidays further afield in warmer climates its pretty rubbish to be stuck here in miserable grey weather.

If we (the royal we) were really bothered about children we would employ more professionals to be able to meet the needs of the children in the time that we have.
If we were bothered we would force the government to allow schools to be able to run a range of curricula so that all of the pupils needs are met.

Exactly - and I do think some people are bothered but in an era of cuts and austerity, which Councils have the funds to offer more not less?

I genuinely think there needs to be a wholesale re-think of what children need and how it can be provided.
Yes, the fact that many parents work is one factor to be taken into account but its only one.
The increasing number of children living in poverty, school leavers with little hopes for a viable future, life chances being determined from far too early an age etc - the current system doesn't seem to be working for a large part of the population.

It feels like any debate gets stifled by 'but kids need long holidays' and 'school isn't childcare' type statements which are missing the point.
Just because our kids are hunky dory (and I'm grateful mine is) it doesn't mean everything's ok.

It feels like any debate gets stifled by 'but kids need long holidays' and 'school isn't childcare' type statements which are missing the point.

But the length of the holidays is in this case what the debate is about and "kids need long holidays" is a valid opinion.

"school isn't childcare" is a fact and it needs to remain one.

The education system does need a revamp but changing holidays would just be a sticking plaster and would change nothing.

lonicerna the best weather this year was May-June-July. August has been a wash-out so far. Seems pretty typical of the weather most years tbh

Yes it was Cloud. The first 2 weeks of August were OK, but the last couple have felt like autumn. I am hoping for an Indian summer this year.

School holidays re-enforce and promote inequality - is also a fact.
Any debate on school hours/hols should consider how to address that - is also a valid opinion.

It's just sad it doesn't get as much focus.