Will there come a time when school holidays aren't so often or so long?

[QueenOfIce]

Do we really need 6 weeks for summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks in Dec etc etc?

Is it really so knackering to be at school 5 days a week for 6 weeks that a 2 week break is needed?

With the rising cost of childcare I wonder if we'll ever see a reduction in school holidays?

I taught in a country where the summer holiday was on average 10 weeks long and there were three 1 week breaks during the rest of the year meaning each term was between 9 and 12 weeks long.
The kids were fucking exhausted. I mean secondary aged kids, not just primary little ones. They need the regular breaks. I'm always quite stunned when adults who have been through a school system and may even have gone on to study further or higher education completely forget how tiring education can be. Let the kids and teachers have the time to recharge and refocus. In the grand scheme of raising a child, finding a way to occupy your kids for the 6 weeks holidays isn't something you have to do forever.

@Freetodowhatiwant

I would like to see them increased. 8-9 weeks over the summer and a full 4 weeks at Christmas. I think children need the down time.

That does sound like a nice schedule, but how would most working parents find childcare for those holidays? No one gets that much annual leave and unless holiday camps/clubs are heavily subsidised, I doubt many families could afford them for weeks.

DH works full-time, I'm deliberately part-time to accommodate the DCs and an ailing grandparent, but it's still hard to cover some holiday week. As PPs have said, not everyone can afford to be a SAHP or expect childcare help from family.

It's not about parents. It's not about facilitating childcare. It's about children and their needs. I find it odd that you don't see that.

I don't think 4 weeks at Christmas would benefit anybody. Who needs or wants time of when its cold and wet?
All indoor activities (softplay, trampoline parks, etc) cost a fortune. Even museum's can be expensive and picnicking isn't really an option.

But I can certainly see the attraction to an extra couple of weeks in summer. When parkz are free and picnics are a viable option.
It would also spread the peek holidays out a bit.

We are on week 434677 of the summer holiday here.

What was the question?

A few years ago Barnsley Counci looked at chsnging school holidays so that they were more evenly spread across the year - various options, including something like 1 week off every 6 weeks, no long summer break and more time at Christmas/Easter and less time in the summer. They were met with huge opposition and didn’t do it. Not sure of the detail, as we are in a neighbouring borough.

I understand from colleagues, that Leeds City Council ties its school Easter break to the first 2 weeks of April, regardless of when the actual bank holidays are, to standardise things a bit around the variability of Easter.

As for the nerf for school holidays - IME, my dc (going into Y2 and Y5) are shattered after 7 or so weeks of school. It’s pretty intense!

I’d favour a bit longer at Christmas and Easter, and a bit less in the summer. We are a family with 2 working parents, it would still be the same amount of leave to find.

I think this thread highlights that so much is wrong with the current system. Kids are stressed, teachers are stressed, parents are struggling to make ends meet because wages are crap, childcare costs are sky high... Not sure what the ultimate solution is, if there is one, but it goes a lot deeper than changing school holidays around.

My children have grown so much this summer holiday. They have learned so much that they wouldn't have in the narrow curriculum we are now forced to teach.

DD1 has helped me cook a variety of dishes, helped with a number of household tasks, completed the annual reading challenge by the end of week 1, made her room fit for a stb teenager, changed her style, been out forming friendships, challenged herself to do physical activities deemed way too dangerous in most parts of the UK and conversed with foreign children by using a mix of words she has lerned in 3 langugages.

DD2 (barely 2y.o. toddler) has learned all her colours, can recite Stickman by heart for the times we have read it, can now count up to 20, has ditched the dummy, been potty trained and learned to sleep in a big girl bed, has learned to ride a pushbike, become a master climber in playgrounds and can - with help - operate a washing machine and prepare a simple cake.

I know they learn plenty in schools and in childcare settings, but without the holidays, both wouldn't have had half the skills they have now and which will help them tackle the new academic year. I would not want to shorten the holidays for the life of me (and I'd be one of the many out of the profession if they did - it's the only perk teachers have in a job few want to do and even fewer last beyond 5 years in).

I agree @CaledonianSleeper

BikeRunSki the secondary school head teachers said it would be too disruptive to the GCSE and A level curriculums (curricula?) to change the holidays. The 2 week October half term would have been especially troublesome. DD's head teacher and the head of Barnsley's biggest secondary school were particularly vociferous with their protestations. Both schools are by far the most successful schools in the LA so I guess that if the holiday system wasn't broken it didn't need fixing.

It would also present a problem for parents who are teachers in other local authority areas who might have a completely different holiday system.

I would rather have 4 weeks in the summer and then make the two half terms into a two week break. One week is not long enough to have a proper break with my own children while still having stuff to do and set up for the next half term. And i'm not a teacher i'm a TA but i still do my own planning for for certain lessons and do my own resourcing and the teachers resourcing so i have stuff to do.

In fact i would like Christmas break to be longer. This year we only have about 8 days off and it's not long enough for me or the kids. It's so hectic and rushed that the kids are all still exhausted by the time they go back to school. Our first half term is 6 weeks but the one before we break up for christmas is 9 weeks! GAH!!!!

Everyone always focusses on the teachers and their great salaries and great holidays. What about us support staff? I'm a dinner lady and bank lsa, I'm paid just above minimum wage and I choose to do this job, instead of earning a higher wage precisely because of the holidays and school hours so I don't have to worry about childcare. That's my choice and not suggesting I'm hard done by at all but take away the holidays and frankly, I'm not doing this job.
Also, we all enjoyed our lovely long summer holidays when we were kids but now we're adults and it's not so much fun and an inconvenience, we want to take that away from our children. We could add it to the list, like free further education, owning their own home, a pension and retirement. Not sure why we're always in such a race to the bottom.

That makes complete sense Lonicera, thank you. It highlights that the “rhythm” of education is so tied to the traditional school holidays that there is little room to change.

The problem isn't the school holidays, it's the huge amount of time we (as a society) spend working. People don't really have much of a choice but we really need to see more flexible working hours and possibly shorter hours. The current set up is not conducive to a healthy life in my opinion.

I hate the idea of shorter summers and longer half terms, I think it would be more disruptive all the chopping and changing!

I'd also like school to start at 6 and early years education to be better funded.

I would be in favour of a week less in the summer and a week longer at Christmas. The Christmas holidays are pitifully short and we always have so much to do in them. The kids love them and would love more time off.

We have some of the shortest school holidays out there.

Yes, children really do become tired at the end of a term. Go and try and teach properly at the end of a longer term and you'll see.

Teachers and TAs need time without children in school to prep and plan, and assess. The current PPA time allocated is only a fraction of the time required.

If schools stay open longer then teachers, TAs and other related staff will need to be paid more to allow this. Where will the finances be found from?

I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only teacher to leave the profession if the holidays were reduced. My new year resolution for the academic year is to start looking at my own well-being and work/life balance. I realised that I feel much better by week 4 of the holiday and that just highlighted how awful I feel for much of the rest of the year.

I’m pretty sure that the children feel the same way.

My local authority has I believed tweaked the holidays for next year . I week less in the summer and an extra week in October.

The holiday restructure might work during the primary school years, but losing a week in October makes a huge difference during the public exam years as such a lot of work is covered in one week. I would have loved a two week spring bank break when DD was at primary school.

Moving the weighting of the holidays just wouldn't fit, unless the week was taken off at the back end of August. Obviously a 2 week spring bank half term wouldn't work because it it slap bang in the middle of the exams.

DD's school (or ex school as she has now left) already start the new academic year before the summer holidays. The students spend the last four weeks of summer term in the next academic year to give them a bit of a head start. When they started doing this the GCSE results went up.

I feel that a two week break at Christmas is more than enough. It is the most miserable time of year with rubbish weather and short days. I say this as the parent of a teenager, not a small child, so Christmas is not at all busy for us. IMO a longer holiday wouldn't work for KS4 and KS5 years with mock exams etc.

I don't believe I said that school was childcare, I don't believe children need a 2 week break every 6 weeks

They don't currently have this. They usually have a week after 6-8 weeks (three half terms) , a fortnight only at Christmas and Easter. Then 5-6 weeks in the summer. They have 13 weeks of school holidays in total - in England anyway.

I wonder if so many adults felt this when they were children themselves?! I remember loving school holidays!

School is not childcare.
Teachers are not childcare providers.
School holidays are a known factor when choosing to start a family.

It's not about it being exhausting (but yes many children do find it very tiring by 6 weeks) but more that it's deemed important for children to actually be children and have chance to learn and explore in a non academic way. They're not adults so why would we expect them to be worked like adults. They've got at least 40 years of that coming up so why not allow them 12 years or so of greater freedom. I know it's hard to juggle child care but the holidays are there for their benefit, not yours.

Absolutely this! As a teacher I see how shattered children are by the end of term, yes, they definitely need proper holidays to rest, recharge their batteries and be children.

I do think the summer holidays are a bit long and I do think 2 weeks in October would be better and shortern the summer break.
I always find my ds is shattered by the Oct break and the usual winter coughs and colds start so that extra week there would be great.

My ds school already have 2 weeks at whit end of may first week of June. Which also shortens the summer holidays by a week.

"School is not childcare.
Teachers are not childcare providers.
School holidays are a known factor when choosing to start a family."

This ^^ with bells on.

I think it's time to rethink school term times and holidays.

When the long summer break was introduced, it was because so many rural children would be kept away from school by their parents during the summer because they were needed to help in the fields. That scenario hasn't applied for at least the last 50 years.

Why couldn't schools be open all year round? The curriculum need not change; the extra time would mean more time for children to pursue wider studies and interests. Teachers would be less tired because they would have more time to deliver the curriculum.

Fixed school holidays could be made obsolete, so people could go on holiday when they wanted to. Teachers would have a holiday allowance, the same as employees in other professions do. Teachers would cover for each other. Obviously they couldn't all go away at once; that's the case in any workplace, but the whole set up could be far more flexible than it is now.