Will there come a time when school holidays aren't so often or so long?

[QueenOfIce]

Do we really need 6 weeks for summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks in Dec etc etc?

Is it really so knackering to be at school 5 days a week for 6 weeks that a 2 week break is needed?

With the rising cost of childcare I wonder if we'll ever see a reduction in school holidays?

@80sMum but it's not just teachers,there's TA's,office staff, MSA's,cooking staff, cleaning staff etc. Plus a teacher can't just cover another teacher,normally a supply would need to be brought in which costs a lot. Not to mention resources to last all year.Plus you'd have to pay ALL the staff a lot more. Where is the money supposed to come from?

Rebel at the school where I work (I work all year round on the support staff) we never use supply teachers. Teachers cover for each other. Many of our teachers are part time or on flexible hours and have non teaching time in their timetables. Teachers' timetables are juggled in order to ensure cover.

Our cleaners and catering staff would welcome the extra hours and the extra pay.

Your question about finance is a very valid one and I don't claim to have the answer. I just think the whole set up of terms and holidays needs a radical rethink.

The logistics of keeping a School open all year round in a timetabled sense would be impossible. And it’s not hard to envisage situations where children would get no break at all.

Having schools, or one group in a group of schools, open throughout holidays to provide some sort of heavily subsidised summer scheme/childcare would be a better idea.

Term time +2 school employee and mother here!

I think it does need looking at. Maybe make terms a bit more even or mirror the Scottish dates so the kids are actually off school when the classrooms are stifling hot in June/July and return when it starts to get colder at the end of August. But the break every 6 weeks and the number of weeks needs to be the same or possibly more. There is always a need for more wrap around and holiday club childcare.

Yes to regular breaks. No to 6 weeks in the summer - one month over July would be adequate.

I wish they would take 2 weeks off the summer and add 1 to oct half term and the other to feb half term instead.
I have 2 sn kids and the 6 weeks break is a nightmare.

Will there come a time when employment matches children’s needs?

Work is fundamentally incompatible with small children at the moment. We need more regulation and better incentives for employers to be family friendly. How about low NI for part timers?

We have enough teachers to teach our classes (9 classes, 9 teachers) -there is no scope to cover anyone else’s class. We have a ban on supply as we have no money, so this would have to be covered by TAs. Still, I’m sure some parents wouldn’t mind as long as it’s free childcare.

No deep cleaning, decoration, new installations or maintenance would get done and no building work. It just wouldn’t be safe. I also think the increasing mental health issues we have amongst children and young people would go through the roof.

Lots of my family work for the nhs where it’s a complete bun fight to get the weeks off that you want in the summer-it’s the same in many offices. If this was reduced to 3-4 weeks off, it would be horrendous!

Good points Holiday
DD's primary school had a lot of building work during the 6 week holidays one year. This work couldn't have been carried out while the children were there.

Your issue isn’t with the school but with the lack of provision for all the out of school hours.

This ^

Working British parents really struggle with the long holidays because childcare is so bloody expensive and the hours rarely coincide with regular working hours. It seems that the standard hours for holiday clubs are 9-3, which doesn't tally with anyone's working day, let alone allow for commuting time. Most other countries in Europe provide government-subsidised childcare for pre-school and school-age DC, which allows working parents to do just that. My kids are off for 16 weeks a year - no job I could get would pay for childcare for that and leave me with any profit afterwards, so I don't work.

Who is going to pay for the additional hours?
You do realise the support staff are only paid for term time.
The government is not going to foot the huge increase in wages.

Now I would go the other way.

When I was a kid (in Leicestershire, I think that made the difference)

We only had 2 or 3 days at February and May half term.
2 weeks for Easter and Christmas, and a week in October.
Then a longer summer.

Far better. In recent years my kids have only had 5 and half weeks in summer. That's nothing, by the time you've had a weeks holiday, bought school uniform and seen the grandparents, the hols are over and there's been no time just to crash at home.

A lot of schools are in old buildings. The holidays are needed to maintain these buildings.

I have just left education. One of the many reasons was because the school wanted to change my timetable on a regular basis. I cannot work like that. I would have been getting an email on a Sunday for the days and which occasionally happened a call on the day to ask me to go in/don’t go in.
It was bad enough having my timetable changed during the day after I had spent time planning for x and instead doing y. And although there were plans for y I would still have to find time to go over the details and ensure resources where available.
All teachers have non teaching hours as standard in every school.

Then having the model of always open and everyone taking holidays when they wanted. How would those students be caught
Up on what they missed? There might not be a spare member of staff because they are covering other absent staff.

If children want to learn more then it’s the job of the parent to also teach their child.

Another issue with the school open all year. Some parents are selfish cunts and would leave their child in the school all year round.

Someone suggested allowing the children to rest in the school during the day. Where exactly would they rest?

It’s not just the staff wages that would need paying. Remember they aren’t paid for holidays. But also running costs and supplies. Schools are already underfunded to begin with.

It may be nice to have the summer break earlier when the weather tends to be at its best. But I wouldn't really want longer in October or February at the expense of summer. Those half terms are cold and dark early which puts a big limit on what we can do during them. Plus reducing summer holidays would lead to chaos with everyone needing to be off work at once.

Blimey where do you live that your kids get two weeks holiday ever six weeks. In October, February and May they get two weeks? That's very unusual OP.

Absolutely this! As a teacher I see how shattered children are by the end of term, yes, they definitely need proper holidays to rest, recharge their batteries and be children.

Agree @LadyPenelope68 but unfortunately some people just do not believe this. They don't see how it is at school so quite simply don't believe it.

And some people really do treat school as a childcare provision.

80s because children need that break. Enough sleep, not the amount that fits around school hours, time to chill in the afternoon, rather than tea half an hour after we get in, then bed for the youngest, time to read, draw, watch TV or YouTube, play on the tablet, play with toys, play in the garden and park, go to holiday club and play in their garden, play on their consoles, do arts and crafts, go to camp, go on picnics, stay with relatives in the countryside and go blackberrying, go out for lunch. That's just what they've done these holidays.

80'smum I'm a school cook, and wouldn't welcome the extra hours and pay if schools were to open all year round as you suggest. I'm a qualified chef, and I'd be back into the private sector like a rat off a sinking ship if I lost my family friendly conditions.

6 weeks in the summer is one of the shortest in Europe,nowhere in Europe has less than 6 weeks in the summer, france, Poland & Switzerland have 8 weeks Spain& Greece 10, italy 3 months (but they only have 2 at christmas and 1 at easter as well) , germany 6 norway 8 nearly all have a total of at least 13 weeks off if not more

the summer is the best weather why would you want more holiday between october and march than april to september?

the real problem is not the length of holiday but the cost of childcare, I think children need the time off also I think 4 is too young for full time school

In Ireland we have 2 months summer holiday in primary school and 3 months in secondary, plus the usual mid terms, etc. I always considered UK holidays to be pretty short. Kids do need decent holidays, it's not fair to expect them to do adult working hours just for their parents' convenience. What a miserable childhood that would be.

Blimey where do you live that your kids get two weeks holiday ever six weeks. In October, February and May they get two weeks? That's very unusual OP.

Almost as if it isn’t true!

It's not about parents. It's not about facilitating childcare. It's about children and their needs.

Except it isn't. Here's what it would look like if schooling was designed to meet children's needs:

• The school day would build in time to provide additional support to children falling behind, allow longer for children to reflect and learn, teach life skills as well as the curriculum.

• Before/after school care would be standardised across schools rather than a hotch potch cobbled together, favouring those with money, sharp elbows and luck. It would target and prioritise those children needing the most support.

• School holiday clubs would be standardised across the country, again targeting those children most in need, providing academic support as well as enrichment. They wouldn't vary in quality or be only for those with ample money.

Critically this would help close the widening gap between the lucky and not so lucky.

There are lots of reasons the above isn't happening (funding, for one). But lets not pretend the current system is best for children. In fact it fails the children who need the most support.

I think we've got this case about face.

School holidays don't need changing. Kids are kids. All round the world the schools have minimum 6 week break at some point. It's because children need it, and the regular breaks the holidays give them. Can't change that. It is what it is.

And at some point schools need building work, maintenance etc.

So what could be changed? Maybe work flexibility needs changing. Childcare needs to be cheaper: the UK has some of the most expensive because the Government doesn't help working parents. If working parents were given assistance (on a sliding scale linked to income) then this could be mitigated for those families struggling in the longer breaks. But the government would never pay for it.

In Australia the school year goes from Jan-Dec, and there are 4 terms of 9 weeks with a 2 week break between each one and a 6 week break in summer. No half terms which is easier to manage. My kids school has a brilliant vacation care facility which can be subsidised by the government depending on your income.
The issue about kids needing a break is irrelevant when you are a working parent and have to resort to childcare, it involves getting up at the usual time, being out all day and coming home at the usual time. Sure, they are not in the classroom but they don’t get a proper break. So they may as well be at school.