To think some women with children look down on childless women?

[Kartrashian]

Just curious really ...

I’m childless and I know at least two women that I see in a social situations (friend of a friend/family member) that genuinely look through me like I’m invisible.

They always make the effort to talk to the other mums.

I do want to stress that I said SOME women .., but has anyone else experienced this?

Cant be tired because I dont have children
Not that it's impossible to be tired without children but most parents have substantially revised their experience of 'being tired' after having children. I frequently felt tired before having kids, but nothing like the insane tiredness of long-term sleep deprivation that I've now had. Dependent on your circumstances you may have experienced levels of tiredness as or more extreme as a parent, but that would honestly be unusual.

Cant be a good nurse because I dont understand parents
Obvious bollocks, as much as saying you can't be a good nurse because you don't understand old people

Am selfish because I have money to spend on frivolities
Obvious bollocks as you can spend your money how you like

Am boasting when I talk about things that DH and I do
See previous

Spend too much time and money on the dogs
No such thing, dogs are awesome

Shouldnt have dogs as they scare their children (they are geriatric, toothless and blind pugs)
Obvious bollocks, the dogs are probably more scared of the kids

Am wasting my life but not being a mother
None of their business, I don't suppose many of them are curing cancer either

Have no idea what responsibility is as I dont have children
Again, not that you can't be a responsible human being without children, particularly since you're a nurse, but parents have gone through the transition from being responsible primarily for their own selves, to having another person wholly dependent on them basically 24/7/365. You get used to it, and they get less dependent, but almost nobody is truly prepared for what it's like before it happens to them personally. You may be the rare exception.

Obviously you know some pretty horrible people who talk bollocks that you can safely ignore, but I also think it's possible to recognise that when you become a parent you do have experiences that non-parents don't have, and it's very hard to really understand those experiences if you haven't had them.

I mean, I read and watched and thought I understood a lot about India before I went there. But none of it really prepared me for the actual experience of going to India. That's just the way it is. You can't truly know something if you haven't experienced it.

and will talk about politics etc which most of my school gate mum friends avoid.

So true. The morning after the Brexit result nobody mentioned it at baby group. There are whole massive issues I would never get to talk about if I was relying on mum friends.

Must be my resting bitch face. The emotion I'm trying to convey is sheer, unadulterated envy!

I find many people don't want to talk to me because I do have children. An assumption all I want to talk about is nappies and achievements. Zzzzz

Like pp, I think some people just use anything they can lay their hands on to look down on other people.

I just remember it says more about them than about those they look down on. “People who put you down are well aware of your potential even if you aren’t”.

Do think it’s a particularly nasty choice of put down though, as it can really cut to the quick. Especially as it is often difficult to know in a social setting who is childfree and who is childless ( and also maybe who is using the attitude of being childfree as a way of coming to terms with being childless, or people who are genuinely conflicted about what they want from life).

I imagine e it works both ways though, I've heard women with children say they've felt invisible when in social situations with childless people before.

People are just idiots in general tbh

I few years ago I was suffering very badly from insomnia. I was very ill by this point. I had a female manager a work laugh and tell me I couldn’t possibly know what tired was as I didn’t have children

Personally I really dislike both child-free and child-less, as I'm neither smug nor bereft. I generally just say I don't have any children; it's a straightforward fact.

What would the opposite be? Child-blessed and child-burdened?

I have come across the odd woman with children who doesn't know how to relate to one without (but they are odd... ).

Mostly people don't really care either way and recognise you still have a life but your priorities are different.

"So true. The morning after the Brexit result nobody mentioned it at baby group. There are whole massive issues I would never get to talk about if I was relying on mum friends."

Yes, I have found that women with children are not interested in politics, particularly women at baby groups or at the school gate.....wait, what am I saying? That is, of course, utter, utter bollocks

Over the years I have had some very nasty and personal comments made to me about choosing to be childfree. The majority were from women who have children (a couple from men).

Comments like "you are not normal", "you are not a real woman", "you are selfish", "why did you bother getting married if you didn't want children", "you will be very lonely when you get old".

There have been threads on here with the occasional nasty remark. Recently a mum said anyone without children could not know real love. Another said humans are on this planet to have children and they couldn't understand why anyone would not want to

DisplayPurposesOnly - me too, I don't have kids and dislike the term 'childfree'. I find it slightly hostile, as if children are some sort of disease.

Everyone has insecurities and wants reassurance about their own life choices, because life is scary. Some people lack the self awareness not to broadcast said insecurities to the world however. Hence they act like dicks.

Yes, I have found that women with children are not interested in politics, particularly women at baby groups or at the school gate.....wait, what am I saying? That is, of course, utter, utter bollocks

I never said they were not interested in it. I said they did not discuss it, which I find to be true in those situations.

Childfree by choice here and yes I agree with this. Women do seem to be the most harsh.

It's endemic really- I'm certainly no Teresa May supporter but there's been a lots of press about her not having kids, almost like it defines her as a person (or not) yet there are loads of male politicians that haven't got kids and it's not referenced. It's tiresome.

Tiredness- I've had comments on this too. When I've had rude comments I retort that it was their choice, which is rude back but having suffered insomnia I get fed up of it being dismissed. It's not a competition- tiredness sucks for all, no matter the cause!!

I am child-free or childless (by choice, I don't really care what word people use).

I have never felt looked down upon, or pitied or that society is pressuring me to have children in the slightest. Maybe I am blinkered, but as far as I'm concerned it's just another decision I have made, like what job I do, or where I live.

Perhaps people are just overthinking it?

Perhaps people are just overthinking it?

Those of us who have actually been told that we don’t understand what proper real love is, have no real responsibilities and no proper marriage are overthinking it? Really?

Ffs. It’s bad enough being treated badly because of the lack of children but to be told your feeling aren’t even valid and you’re overthinking it?

I have found that women with children are not interested in politics, particularly women at baby groups or at the school gate

Actually I've found this to be true. Many years ago I took my ds to a baby group. I can't even remember what it was exactly but something quite important and momentous had happened politically and I mentioned it in conversation...the looks I got..never bothered to mention current affairs again and stuck to mundane questions about how much does your baby weigh.

I'm child free and 43. I've felt some of the things that have been mentioned, and not because others have made me feel that way.

I worked for a DV charity for years and saw first hand the way having children affected women. Literally stuck and will be forever, unless a man comes along to help them out, and then, given we are still more or less dominated by patriarchy, they may have to sell out again. There was one time I was supporting a big and long court case and he dragged her through hell and I thought, you're stuck with this for years and years. It will define your life to some degree.

So I thought, never in a million years can I end up like that. I've fought long and hard to get free from abuse and I intend to stay that way.

Then I took a career break and worked in IT where it was male dominated, and most of those men were decent, wealthy, funny family men who loved their wives and children, and I suddenly thought have I missed out here? Have I worked at the sharp end for too long and it's spoiled my understanding of what it could have been like? It made me feel bad and different, like the earlier poster said.....not grown up (I would still kick my heels off after work, and spend the night playing guitar on the floor or going out) and like I'd never experienced that special form of love you get from having and raising children. Once I was so upset by this thinking, that I rang a similar child free friend and asked her to talk to me about it.

But she and her partner are actively against children and they go further than I would.

So I asked myself, well do you? Now that you're in the midst of living with the outcome of your choice, DO you want this? And I concluded that yes I do choose this. Part of me would love to be pregnant and give birth and hold a tiny newborn knowing I made her, but the greater part of me doesn't want to be tied down with childcare and putting three meals on the table every day. And I'm too old now anyway really, I can feel my fertility changing.

So.

Sorry it's me me me but it's an interesting one and I think about it a lot.

I am childless and 36.

My friend introduced me to his new partner in a pub one night and the subject of children came up.

She asked how many children I have and I said none. She was shocked to the core, her response was "No children at all? Really? You need to get cracking, the biological clock is ticking"

Needless to say I'm not a fan of hers.

I have definitely come across the "not a proper adult" / "don't know what it's like to be tired" type attitude before.... It's also difficult because people will always ask why you don't want kids. It's really hard to answer without them then thinking you're judging their choice to have children... which just makes everyone go on the defensive!

Your post is very interesting and honest something2say. A pp mentioned T May, and I did find myself wondering if she came under pressure to say, or seem, sorry that she did not have children? I have no idea the real background BTW. But I wondered if she really felt that her career was more important than having children, would she have been advised against saying so. Told to lie essentially. This is all hypothetical BTW! Because it may be perceived that voters would have fuzzier feelings towards a woman who wanted children but couldn't have them, than a woman who chose a career over family

I have quite a number of friends without kids. I suspect some would have loved to have had kids but just never met the right guy to have kids with. One can't have children for medical reasons and one is married but has chosen not to have kids. They are still the same fabulous people they were when I met them (before I had kids myself). That's why they're my friends. I wouldn't dream of looking down on them because they don't have children. I love my DC but having a child didn't suddenly turn me into an all- seeing, all-knowing oracle. I think if you're happy with your own life and your own choices, the choices that other people make don't concern you too much. And of course, for some people, not having children isn't a choice .

@something2say having worked in IT for nearly 20 years it is fine for men to say they have children and if they are mid-senior level rearrange their working hours to take care of them if it is necessary, but it isn't fine for women unless they are senior.

I tend to find that older British women who have stayed in IT tend to have 3+ children or none, while foreign women tend to have 1 child. In all cases they rely on family members and/or their husband to help take care of them. Also unlike the men, women with children don't tell you they have them unless you specifically ask.

I go to IT groups outside work where younger British women always moan how difficult it is to have a child as they expect to be able to do it by being the primary carer while being junior-mid level in their career path, so end up leaving. There as from talking to older women they knew they couldn't be the primary carer, couldn't expect flexible hours from their employer, would have to take shorter maternity leave, and would need lots of help.

I have got asked in the past while I don't have children but only by men who have them, and depending on the guy, I have said - "Yes but you don't have to take care of them." I'm actually the same age as you, pregnant at the moment and my OH will end up being the primary carer.

Oh and any woman who has been stupid enough to say something like "not a proper adult" have got short shrift from myself, some of my friends and some of my acquaintances as a few of us lost one or both parents before early adulthood. Mainly as they are stupid enough to mention how much they rely on their parents to help them out when they themselves are 30+.

Some women clearly do, as Andrea Leadsom made that remark about Theresa May not having children.😢 I heard Theresa May say that when they found out they couldn't have children they just 'had to deal with it and move on'. I thought it must have been very difficult for them.
However it isn't universal. I have children, but DD is single, in her 40s and has none. I wouldn't dream of looking down on her, or making comments.

Oh god this op! I get told:

I cant be as empathetic
I dont know true love
I am pitied
It must be so lonely being single and childless
I dont know true tiredness
Im not as busy
My work is not as tiring and stressful as being a stay at home mother

Oh probably. Just as some child free women look down on parents. And some sahps look down on working parents and some wohps look down on sahps... Some people are just happiest when sneering about other people.