Suitable punishments for a 5 year old please

[FruitCider]

My 5 year olds behaviour has deteriorated since they started school and there was an incident which I won't go into details about but if left my child very distressed.

We have been supportive and empathic but my child's behaviour has escalated so far they are:
Spitting
Swearing
Biting
Scratching
Hitting
Screaming

Time out no longer works. When we send them to their room or put them in time out they laugh and run downstairs again.

Rewards charts improve good behaviour but don't stop bad behaviour.

Their behaviour is literally destroying our relationship. I literally can't cope anymore and DP is threatening to leave as neither can he!

Help!!!!

Are you 100% sure there are no other school options. I would understand if it was a village, but you say you're in a city. What about closer to where you work. When I lived in a city there were 5 primaries within walking distance. They weren't all as good as the one my children were in, but some schools are over rated. Some smaller, less outstanding ones can be much more caring environments for some children.

I'd try holding and hugging for now, nothing else is working. Often biting, scratching etc is a cry out for physical contact. Turn it round with positive loving contact. Teach positive contact and love above all else. Hope you can get a private psychologist.

If it helps I have a 5 year old that has no trauma and he started spitting after school. Tiredness can play a part. We just keep telling him it's wrong. We don't do it, his older siblings don't do it.

And tell your husband to stop making things worse with his threat to leave. Abandoning a child never helps any child to recover. He needs to support you and his child.

How about a child minder or nanny? It might be worth looking into possibilities. It doesn't have to be long term, just until another school place comes up.

OP, I feel for you having had a child exhibit very challenging behaviours, albeit with a different cause. I second talking to your GP to get a referral to a child psychologist. Might be something useful here:

www.familylives.org.uk/advice/primary/behaviour/challenging-behaviour/

I haven't read the full thread, but parent two children with childhood trauma, I suggest a Facebook group called 'therapeutic parenting' they are really helpful and supportive. Lots have managed child/parent aggression. Also you could look at natural and logical consequences rather than time outs. And PACE parenting-there are books by Dan Hughes and Kim Golding I think. Sorry don't have a lot of time at the moment.

What about closer to where you work. When I lived in a city there were 5 primaries within walking distance.

Unfortunately there is a crisis with primary school places in my city, that's why we are on 2 waiting lists. We looked at private education but we are over the threshold for financial assistance and we just can't afford £7.5k a year (and rising).

I've requested to join therapeutic parenting, thanks

OP sorry you and your child are going through this.

Something that strikes me is that your partner is not supportive of your child. is it his child? You need more support from your partner. Why are they not sympathetic?

Yes obviously you can't keep letting your child attack you, but don't try to control the behaviour with punishment. You can restrain a child safely by holding them in a hug with their body facing away from yours, your arms crossed over theirs. They can't reach to bite, scratch, etc. Difficult with a 5yo if you're slight yourself, but not impossible.

As it sounds like it's not possible to move schools it would be worth asking for an emergency meeting with them before your child goes back in order to discuss the situation with the new teacher and any safeguarding staff possibly including the head. About possible supervision/separation during break times. I mean really it should be the aggressor who is excluded from group playtime but perhaps that can't go on indefinitely, so something to help your child feel safe at school would be the priority.

School is 5 days a week.

You work 2 days. Home ed the other 5 days. Hopefully it would be short term until a place in a school comes up.

Fruit just ignore all the posts of "why don't you do this .... your not putting your child first ..."

Unless anyone has actually been there they don't understand. I actually had same advice and just asked people if they genuinely thought not being able to provide the basics (shelter. Warmth, food) for my child was putting his needs first then they were the ones with a fucked up set of priorities.

My ds was actually out of school for a while as he was too anxious to attend. I was lucky to have family who helped and a firmed who's a childminder and had a empty space for the rest of term (who didn't charge I just paid expenses) for ds.
He did also change schools via a managed move because it was trauma that caused this. Have a look at the fair access protocol and managed moves policy for your area as you could request this as a solution.

It took a fair while to financially get over the cost impact of unpaid leave etc but I also know if I'd have quit work and lived off benefits (I'm a LP) then the financial costs would have been even greater and as well as losing the benefits of school he'd have had to give up extra curricula activities and we'd have had no car limiting our family activities.

The bigger picture is so important here because your LO needs to feel secure and as if this incident doesn't define their whole being.

You work 2 days. Home ed the other 5 days. Hopefully it would be short term until a place in a school comes up

I work 7 shifts a fortnight (I posted my rota down below). Who is going to look after my child when i work?

Hi fruitcider I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve always found your posts about your job interesting and I’m surprised people were so quick to call troll .

I’ve had experience with different child therapy’s including a 1:1 with a child psychologist. This, music therapy and talking therapies for children were all provided for free and organised through our health visitor. I know your dc is just out of this age range but could you get in touch with the old hv. And see what she could do?

Other than that lots of love with firm boundaries around behaviour. Good luck.

Please get help for your child. From your post, thus behaviour is in response to school terror. Imagine having to do something you were terrified of 5 days a week with no control. Punishment is not going to help. You might want to read about ‘lovebombing’ but some family therapy is what I would suggest.

Thanks coco I would understand if I wasn't an established poster but I've been on mumsnet for years and knew some would be horrible which is why it's taken me so long to ask for advice!

First of all tell your partner to man up!

Your poor boy is obviously traumatized and acting up, if he's threatening to leave, let him.

Your post screams to me that you're worried about your partner leaving and want to quickly fix this behaviour. It might not be that easy, he needs time and understanding.

He's only 5, surround him with cuddles and affection, ignore the bad behaviour and pick your battles.

OP as well as complaining to the school you need to ring social services for advice.

They should be involved in what went on at school/the plan for the be future. They also should be able to signpost you for support for your son.

Also go to the GP and get as many referrals as you can for your son.

The school need to be sharing with you what their plan is to safeguard your son- so that means eliminating the opportunity for any repeat incidents.

2 waiting lists is a start, but I don’t think there is a limit I would get him on every waiting list you can that is remotely practical.

In the short term try and keep things as calm as you can at home. Try and encourage DS to verbalise his emotions but don’t expect too much of him at the moment. If you can work out triggers that cause outbursts/aggression do what you can to minimise these.

What a nightmare, I really get the need to work, need to keep home life on an even keel thing - I have no sense that you’re prioritising work etc over your child. The reality is life doesn’t stand still even though we might want it to.

I’d echo the suggestion re therapeutic parenting and PACE, also google theraplay which is a form of therapeutic play aimed at building attachment. While your child’s trauma wasn’t related to you and your partner, it will have fundamentally shaken his sense of safety so anything that builds his attachment with you and your partner will be a good thing.

One of the things I find useful about therapeutic parenting is going back and talking about what happened when things are calm rather than trying to address it st the time. My DC are adopted and have a history of trauma - my DD didn’t have any words for feelings so we’ve really had to work on this with her. That’s meant games like pulling faces together (show me your angry/sad/worried/happy face and mirroring what she does), being clear about me naming my feelings (I’m really annoyed with myself for dropping that plate) and naming her feelings (I wonder if you’ve got a worried feeling in your tummy). All of this is aimed at building emotional literacy - your DS may literally not have words for how he feels so helping him express himself will be important.

The other thing we do is that at any time one or other of us can ask to start again - so if she starts to kick off about something, she’ll catch herself shouting or whatever and will ask to start again. She’ll leave the room, come back in and we’ll start the whole conversation again. It gives her a way to back down before things get too heated.

It may also be worth getting him into martial arts, drama or yoga - something that reconnects him with his body and helps him control breathing etc because we often dissociate when we experience trauma - sometimes hitting and self harm are about trying to physically feel something and the activities noted will help him do that in a constructive way.

I work 7 shifts a fortnight (I posted my rota down below). Who is going to look after my child when i work?

What days/times does your partner work?

OMG I rang social services for advice as I thought the response from the school was poor and I was completely fobbed off and told that they wouldn't deal with it because it happened during school hours 😭

I am TERRIFIED my partner will leave. He had childhood trauma and I don't think he can cope....

What days/times does your partner work

Mon - fri 9-5 (as below)

A childminder for the days neither of you are home won’t be that expensive. Home schooling doesn’t involve anything like the hours they spend at school and he will keep up with his peers easily enough.

You can’t send him back to school when he is terrified, you just can’t.

Your partner needs to get a grip and to put your CHILD first. His childhood trauma is just that, he’s an ADULT NOW and needs to put this ACTUAL CHILD first.

A childminder for the days neither of you are home won’t be that expensive

It will be £50 a day. It will cost £500 a month. We don't have that. And I'm sure a home ed childminder costs more money than that...

Get into the GP first thing in the morning. The health visitor team might also know of parenting courses that could give you some fresh ideas. It sounds awful OP and you need to talk to the school. I would email them putting all your concerns down, copy in the governors and requesting a meeting before he returns to school. I don't understand while you're being attacked here. Home ed is not the answer to everything and would probably feed into the school is something to be feared concept.

I hope that Facebook group a couple of people have recommended is of use x

In the meantime can you fit in some nice long walks, exercise is good for the mood