To move kids abroad to a country you dislike...

[Lake2]

Hi all,
I've changed my name for obvious reasons.
My husband is Norwegian and has lived here 10 years and had a good job. We have a toddler and a 4 year old.
I'm happy here, although we barely have any family as my parents also live abroad. However, DH has been recently made redundant and has now got a new job in Norway, which he is loving. Up to now, he's been coming back for weekend visits once or twice a month. This is obviously very upsetting for our little family as he is constantly leaving and it takes us a few days to settle back into our routine and to 'get used' to not having him around.

This was meant to be a short term plan until he found work in the U.K...he has now sprung it on me that he wants to stay there and wants me and the kids to move there.
For any possible Norwegians, I don't mean to offend, but I just really don't like Norway. The culture/weather/lifestyle/people/language is very different to here in the U.K. I don't speak a word of Norwegian and neither do my children. Our 4 year old has recently started a very good school and feeling settled.
Being apart it obviously no good for our family but I feel that tearing my kids away from a place they know and going to a foreign speaking country is just awful. Every time I'm in Norway, I feel extremely isolated and homesick and just can't wait to get home. DH arguing that we could have a better life there etc etc but just the thought makes me feel sick.
As of now, he's unwilling to leave his new job in Norway and not backing down.
WWYD?

Those saying to give it a trial need to understand that once a child is deemed habitually resident then they cannot be taken out of the country, even for a holiday, without the permission of the native parent.
That means if he turns nasty, and it's not uncommon, the op will never be able to take her kids back to the uk she's stuck there until they are 18.

I have seen too many cases where the mum is stuck in some godforsaken boondocks hick town in the back end of nowhere, isolated and unable to work because she doesn't have perfect fluency or the right degree and with the rich paternal family closed ranks and turning the kids against her.

If you wanted to move then I'd say go for it. I did and I've benefitted from a better job and quality of life. But it's been hard. Swedes are cold, Norwegians make swedes look like multicultural hippies.

Do NOT be pushed into it.

I'm really thankful for all the advice and wise words, been a big help to me. I haven't been able to talk to any family or friends about it so it's a big help.
My husband has lived outside of Norway longer than it so when I originally wanted to learn Norwegian, he didn't make an effort and would get angry if I asked for him to repeat a word more than once. I suggested Norwegian Wednesdays when we would only speak Norwegian and he couldn't be bothered as his English is so much better than his Norwegian and he thinks and dreams in English now. I did get a 'learn Norwegian' DVD but it was awful and his step dad laughed when I tried to use a word I'd learned and it put me off.

A few have really misenterpreted me, I wanted my kids to speak Norwegian. It would give them great opportunities later on in life and of course is part of who they are. It was my husband who couldn't be bothered doing it. He made a few attempts when our first was born and then gave up when he was a later talker and struggling with his speech. I would have 100% supported his wish to teach them Norwegian.

It's not really about Norway why he wants to live in Norway; he said himself he feels more British. It's all about the money and financial opportunities and the fact he's desperate to buy a house and can't here, due to an awful credit score.

Ok, so he wants you to move to a foreign country but has a track record of refusing to help you or the DCs learn the language. The in-laws also aren't supportive of or sympathetic to your efforts.

Every one of your posts screams out that you should not agree to this.

A lot of Norwegians do speak English, but without Norwegian the reality is you'd be very isolated there.

Christ after what you you have just written and him not bothering to help you no way would I go!

Why on earth does he have an awful credit score?

As others have said - don't go. Way too risky for you.

You made it clear up front that you weren't prepared to move and I think he has been really sneaky and now to mention divorce.

Do you work? I'd be looking into getting your finances in order - my worry would be would he pay maintenance if you do split up and how easy would it be to get it if he was then resident in Norway.

I really feel for you - it is a very difficult situation.

Alarm bells would be ringing hugely!
Good friend of mine moved to Norway and echoes a lot of what you say, very insular community , hostile to outsiders and depressingly dark for a lot of the year.

It's one of the few European countries I wouldn't consider a move to. Besides that he is holding a gun to your head which. Idea terribly

With that information, there is no way I would be going there then.

If he isn't happy to put the effort to help you and your dcs to learn Norwegian in the first place, it will be extremely hard for you to learn. His whole attitude is very off TBH.

I'm really winning though. How will it be easier to buy a house in Norway if life is there is more expensive than in the U.K.?

I suspect this is NOT about going back to Norway. There is something else going on maybe a way for him to check out the relationship and make it your issue rather than his.

Just one thing though. I have spent more time out of France than living in France and the uk is the country where I lived the longest in my life. I still have dreams about living in France.... it still feels like home when I go back there. It still where I have my life long friends. Be careful about the idea that because you have lived longer out of a country than in that country, you can't feel you belong there.

Unless they've changed their rules you can't have both British and Norwegian citizenship so presumably not an option for him to get British.

I'm in Sweden and moved here willingly and it's been very tough. Just repeating what others have said about how you actually won't be able to leave and come home and many women are stuck like that.

I would agree to keep options open, start a Norwegian course where you are - could you get a Norwegian au pair as well?
Go over for all the school holidays, join international mums in Oslo group. Try and find some positives but don't move for good until you're sure you want to.

Sorry that was the Facebook group I meant - think it's called international mothers and babies in Oslo or something along those lines. In Oslo you could have s good network of friends who aren't Norwegian and you can grumble to about the annoying parts of it when needed!

Didn't know that about Norway and dual citizenship.

That makes it very hard then. Because you will really need a discussion on what yu will do for the rest of your life type of discussion.
You will really need to check all the possibilities re what would happen if you go and live there (and would happen if your all decide to stay here btw).

Tricky. VERY tricky because you gang plan a 'oh we will try for a few years and decide' as the options of here you will all be able to live might have changed a lot.

No way. He's lived in England whilst you've known him; he's moved the goal posts. Stay where you are.

This is more complicated than the opening post suggested. But then again, life is.

I have lived in Denmark with my English husband, and it wasn't easy. The Scandinavian countries can be difficult to get work in if you don't speak the language quite well. And British expats have a tendency to make a nice little ghetto for themselves - have you ever noticed that there seems to be an Irish/Scottish/English pub in most capitals?

(also Scandis have a habit of insisting on speaking English to English people and not letting them learn the language)

In the end it was me who suggested that we move to England before the DC reached school age as I was not enjoying my teaching job or the area that we lived in. The first year in England was very difficult, and I often wondered if I had done the right thing. My MIL and SIL were not as helpful as they had said they would be, in fact, from our perspective we ended up helping them more than they helped us. We still don't have a very close relationship to them. Often I find it unfair that my family are far more interested in our DC, but they are in another country. And of course with Brexit I don't feel very welcome at the moment.

OP, it sounds like you have made a lot of effort to nurture the bicultural (great phrase from another poster!) aspects of your family life. It can be hard, I know. My DC almost always answer me in English when I speak Danish to them, which I don't do as much as I would like.

I understand that you are feeling insecure because "this wasn't part of the deal". But people change and evolve, and priorities change, work changes and the country you live in change. You as a family now need to make some new decisions. I can understand why your DH wants the well-paid job, but it does seem to come at a price for you as a family. I am thinking that your DH wants to buy a house as he feels that is the right thing to do as a provider for his family.

When you are a couple from different countries, there will be a lot of hard decisions along the way.

I do understand why you want to stay in England, but you need to find a solution that you are both happy with, if there is one, and it won't be easy. If your DH only wants to be in Norway for the well-paid job, then I think he will get fed up with living there after a while, so even for him it is probably not the right choice. How long has he been working in Norway now?

The wages are much higher in Norway. That is probably how op's DH thinks he will secure a mortgage. Things are much more expensive, but it levels out somewhat.
I have to take issue with the opinion that Norwegians can be cold etc...
I have never found that. They are very warm welcoming people. They don't have as many 'frills' in their language as compared to English- that comes across when you translate it. My sister learnt the language from her first arrival over 20 years ago. That really helped her understand the culture. Anyway, l think op has much bigger problems on her hands unfortunately.

Tjis will be no help OP but my DH works in Norway 6 months of the year (up a lot futher and remote). He wants me to go live there with him and up until now with our children I have an excuse not to go.
I don't want to live there and never will, I do love the country and our house (not my home) there but only to visit, I go twice a month although the travel is a nightmare, every time I land back here is like a huge rush of relief.
I can understand why you wouldn't want to go but if you want to stay married to him there needs to be a compromise?
Can you go there the weekends he doesn't come here, the children would get used to that routine quickly at such young ages, it may not be a good long term option but whilst they are little it could work.

my worry would be would he pay maintenance if you do split up and how easy would it be to get it if he was then resident in Norway.

Complicated - if they both live here the assumption is no maintenance at all and 50:50 with the kids. Not sure what would happen if you were in uk and he in Norway.

Even before the D-I-V-O-R-C-E word was uttered, it would have been sheer madness to agree to this. You not being keen, being strong armed/talked into a move to a country which can be difficult to integrate into, likely MH issues (even 'minor') arising from that, resentment, etc- it just sounds like a recipe for marital breakdown. Combined with the fact it would be very difficult for you to leave with the kids by the time you admitted the game was up on the relationship, I'd be recommending you get on the first train departing for Nope Town and don't look back. If he wants to split up and stay in Norway apart from his kids that's on him, but don't be blackmailed into this.

It would be entirely different if you'd previously been open to it, your partner was supportive and showed engagement with his own language and culture, was keen to help you assimilate, or there was definitely potential for you to return unhindered if it didn't work out. But that's not the case.

I'll add my perspective. I'm the foreign spouse living in Britain with British DH and British-born DCs. I am often horribly homesick. I could probably make more money in my home country, we would have family support (none here) and it's a lifestyle I'm happier with.

But.

I would never, never ask DH to make the move unless it was 100% something he wanted to do. It's more important than he wants to do it than me - he would be the one leaving his entire life behind. I had built my own life here before I met him. He'd be moving for me, and everything and everyone he knows there would be through me.

Emigrating is incredibly stressful. I've seen numerous marriages crack under the pressure. I love DH and I value our marriage, and that's why I'd never pressure him to move to my home country.

In your position there is no way at all that I'd move.

Further up thread I was suggesting looking for some positives, and thinking through things. From your later messages, I'd be very wary about moving. I hope you can have some productive conversations with DH when he is next home. Is his credit rating shot due to join debts??? Will you be lumbered with them if he leaves the country??

I wouldn't go. If you don't like the country on a holiday you won't like living there I think! I think your DH is being out of order. Yes, it's home for him but you met here and the plan was to stay here. He's going back on that commitment.

I'm from another country and I really hope we could move there one day as I think it offers children a better lifestyle. However, DH would have to be fully onboard with it as I appreciate what it would involve.

I'm with you on all your points! I'd find the cold and dark quite depressing personally, I barely cope with it here whilst I agree it's great to push yourself and your kids to do new things go with your gut.

OP, I live in a country that's not my own. I'm very happy here. I love it even though my almost then 37 year marriage broke down 3 years ago. My children are from here. My grandchildren are from here. It was always going to be the case and it's what I wanted to be the reality. I love their foreigness. I'm proud of it. They on the other hand also love the other big part of them which is from me.

You cannot be married to a foreigner and not embrace that part of them. You say you hate Norway but I would put money on you hating any country your husband came from because I'm convinced you just can't do foreign. And just to add that no one looking at me would know I'm the wife of someone local to where I live. I look like a British middle aged granny in all respects but this is my county, my home, my heart is here. You can still be 'you' but in a different setting. No one is going to kidnap you overnight and give you a nationality transplant. But that said I love my ways that have come about of being a blend of two cultures.

Sadly I think there are big cracks in your marriage and this situation is bringing them to the surface so my advice would be to stay put where you are because I think there is a very good chance further down the line you'll end up divorced anyway.

I think you can't do foreign because of moving in your childhood (or something) because your feelings are very extreme.

I think you should look to getting a better paid job in the future, start putting things in place now, such as extra study. Because you might separate but also to raise your standard of living for DH.

If you are a SAHM moving is probably harder, how would you make new friends? Other SAHMs have others who can speak their language to mix with. Better to have a job if you can, also holidays can be boring if you can't speak the language. But I dont' see that they will be if you speak the language.

Make a determined effort to learn Norwegian. Being laughed at when speaking a foreign language is par for the course.

Hell no, don't go. And I say that as someone who did the big move abroad because my husband always wanted to move back (to Oz). I said no to the move for 15 years though, and he accepted my veto with good grace, accepting that it was never going to happen. Then I changed my mind one day, and here we are, and for what its worth I love it and wish we had moved years ago. But Norway is a different prospect, and I wouldn't move their either , certainly not under duress and threats of divorce.

There not their, ffs!

Gosh. I started with your op thinking you should give it a go.
Your gut instinct though is not to do it and having read your updates follow your gut.