Jump through hoops for a school place

[Seulgi]

DD is 2, we live near two schools, one is an Outstanding Catholic school and the other was an Outstanding State school until it was downgraded to Good a few years back and then in June was given a Satisfactory, we moved into the area 7 years ago and the Outstanding State school was a contributing factor to that.

It's quite shocking how much has changed with it. The other Outstanding/Good schools are oversubscribed, I doubt we'll get in on distance alone.

The catholic school is right on our doorstep, I was looking at their requirements online and priority is given to:

Baptised Catholic children who are resident in the parish and whose parents attend church once in a fortnight for 24 months.

Baptised Catholic children who are resident in the parish and whose practice is supported by a priest’s reference

So this all means DH or I will have to attend Church at least once every 2 weeks, get DD baptised and then have her come to church or attend Sunday school and then make sure a priest ticks it all off.

We're atheist, I haven't set foot in a church in 20 odd years and I can't imagine attending for 2 years. We'd most likely stop attending at the first opportunity. We don't mind getting DD baptised, it won't mean anything to us though, it'd just be her getting some water chucked on her, no offence intended.

DH is heavily leaning towards sending her to the satisfactory school but I can't decide.

Is a good school place worth all the fuss? We'll she be able to do as well in the satisfactory school with support at home, or would you just put up with it and attend for 2 years?

Wesailtonight... Do you know much about the Catholic Church?

they know

Flogging anyone that did refuse to confirm someone's attendance despite them otherwise meeting the criteria would leave themselves wide open to successful appeal, not to mention breaking the admissions code which is laid down in law.

They'll confirm attendance if it's documented. The actual reference is another thing entirely. I take it you've never applied to a Catholic school?

The admissions code states there must be a clear way for attendance to be confirmed. The vast majority of churches have a list for attendees to sign. Any that don't, and I recognise there are a small number, both Catholic and CofE, are leaving themselves open to appeal

And a reference would be an illegal criteria.

The original op. In fact I can't read any more of this thread, it's all so entitled! Of COURSE it is lying, and it's an appalling example to set your child! I am actually gobsmacked anyone thinks it's ok. It's really not. By getting your child baptised into a faith you hold in such contempt (it's 'just a bit of water') you are making a mockery of that faith and its followers.

At our church attendance is noted in a register. A member of the church council sit near each door and note every family that attends. Those registers are then used to confirm attendance to support school applications.

Flogging sorry I'm confused weren't you saying a minute ago that schools could withdraw the place from a pupil already attending school if that family stopped attending church?

Waitrose- how can it be entitled to want to attend a tax payer funded public school?

I think having baptism and church attendance as part of school admission criteria makes a mockery of our society, so I'm not going to judge anyone who follows the criteria without faith.

You don't want people to fake religion, support removal of religious criteria.

On the other hand, if your child were baptised and instructed in the catholic faith she would get a moral upbringing that is clearly lacking at home

Oh I wish I could laugh at this but I just cannot because of 10+ years of revelations on how priests and nuns physically and sexually abused Irish children in school and other institutions for generations. Nope it is not even funny just sadly misguided.

I don't hold it in contempt, I just don't believe it, didn't mean to offend.

I've done some further digging, State school was marked down the first time after a new head joined, work wasn't consistent amongst classes and Grading seemed to be done independently instead of discussed, then they were marked down again because of a high turn over of staff, so not consistent year to year, again not transparent in their markings and a health and safety issue at lunch, I think perhaps too many kids eating at one time in one place, It wasn't very clear.

I'll still go and have a look but the Ofsted report hasn't made me feel any better.

Their doesn't seem to be a need to attend church once she gets a place, I don't think I could do that. Getting her baptised may be harder then I think but I have time on my side, 2 years before applying.

Can I not act like DH and I've just found Catholicism? And we'd all like to be baptised together ? Makes more sense then acting like I've been a catholic for years.

I will still go look at both schools.

Whaaat? They take attendance??

Never occurred to me to sign in or make my presence known, not that I've seen anything that would serve this purpose.

At ours, there are so many people at any given mass, people wonder in halfway through, wander out, come back in etc, especially people with toddlers. I mean, the logistics of taking attendance here are just mind boggling.

Yes, I should have mentioned, I'm not Catholic, DH is. But he's from a country where things are different.

Didn't think about applying to Catholic school, but we won't rule it out, locally they are very diverse (religiously, culturally, socially) which is appealing. But now I'm guessing we wont be eligible as we've not signed the register, or whatever it is, despite actually attending

Seriously though, does everyone sign in or just people who will want a school place later on?

What are the bits of paper you need to provide then, when applying to a school place?

You don't necessarily sign in. The priests will pick up on far more about attendance than you think, from scanning the room and gossiping with the attendants/ old dears/ groupies (yes really) They also all talk to each other etc... Small world!

Oh also - everyone here has been saying 'visit the school'.

Can you just ring up and ask for a visit, even though your dc is still, say, 2 years away from school going age? Do they go when you do it that early or do they not mind?

Youll be alright if you attend sail. You just ask them to write you a reference. They do this confirming you attend. If they take attendance I suppose they may consult it to confirm.

Where attendance at church is one of the criteria for a school place, yes usually there are attendance registers you have to sign. Unfortunately without signing you are not able to document your attendance so the priest would not (should not) be able to sign the SIF that goes with your school application.

Dont I figure that's the case, but in a place where they'd get 600-700 people going through on a Sunday?

(I teach at a University and I can't keep tabs on the 300 students I see every week, so I'm puzzled how anyone can. The older I get, the more I confuse students with each other!)

It'll only be parents who sign the register not everyone!!!

I don't really understand how you are going to explain it all to the child though? Take them to church every week for a couple of years where they will learn all about God then once you get them into school suddenly stop going and tell them you were mistaken and God actually doesn't exist but still sending them to aschool where they will be told otherwise? How confusing for the little one

Titchy, I know, but majority of people at our church are parents, so the numbers of people who need to sign in are still massive.

"I don't really understand how you are going to explain it all to the child though? Take them to church every week for a couple of years where they will learn all about God then once you get them into school suddenly stop going and tell them you were mistaken and God actually doesn't exist but still sending them to aschool where they will be told otherwise? How confusing for the little one"

We spent 5 years telling ours God doesn't exist (atheists) but all UK schools have an act of faith and act like the Easter story is real etc. Kids cope.

They can't all be wanting a place in the same year or two at the same schools though surely?

If the admissions criteria states attend for 12 months prior to application, you'll only have parents wanting their child to get a place in sept 17 signing the form at the moment. Once the Jan 17 application has passed then people wanting to apply for Sep 18 will need to sign in. There'll be a bit of overlap but shouldn't normally be more than 90 parents surely?

How will you explain it to your child?
The child will be 4-5 years old - they won't care, they won't question it.

Yes priests know that parents do this, but they are also desperate for more numbers so will take anyone who makes all the right noises and makes the right appearances. There is no way of testing how much you mean it.

Personally I couldn't bear the religious aspect of a catholic school, but if that is the school you want, then you need to decide what you are willing to put into getting a place there.

It's not taking a place away from a catholic child because children are not religious, that's a parent's choice. All children should have equal access to education regardless of their parent's religion.

Maybe you should check!

Your church has HUGE numbers though, I don't think many churches have so many regular attendees!