Jump through hoops for a school place

[Seulgi]

DD is 2, we live near two schools, one is an Outstanding Catholic school and the other was an Outstanding State school until it was downgraded to Good a few years back and then in June was given a Satisfactory, we moved into the area 7 years ago and the Outstanding State school was a contributing factor to that.

It's quite shocking how much has changed with it. The other Outstanding/Good schools are oversubscribed, I doubt we'll get in on distance alone.

The catholic school is right on our doorstep, I was looking at their requirements online and priority is given to:

Baptised Catholic children who are resident in the parish and whose parents attend church once in a fortnight for 24 months.

Baptised Catholic children who are resident in the parish and whose practice is supported by a priest’s reference

So this all means DH or I will have to attend Church at least once every 2 weeks, get DD baptised and then have her come to church or attend Sunday school and then make sure a priest ticks it all off.

We're atheist, I haven't set foot in a church in 20 odd years and I can't imagine attending for 2 years. We'd most likely stop attending at the first opportunity. We don't mind getting DD baptised, it won't mean anything to us though, it'd just be her getting some water chucked on her, no offence intended.

DH is heavily leaning towards sending her to the satisfactory school but I can't decide.

Is a good school place worth all the fuss? We'll she be able to do as well in the satisfactory school with support at home, or would you just put up with it and attend for 2 years?

I find this so hard to understand! I am a lapsed Anglican - if I go to a service I won't pray etc - because I don't believe it and it would be lying!
A baptism service is going to involve promising to bring your child up in the faith,and essentially saying you believe also ( Anglican service: Do you turn to Christ? I turn to Christ...).
So yeah,you can do it but I think it is a appalling example to set your child - showing them that it is fine to say just what the ** you want as long as it gets you what you want.
Also it is disrespectful to the church community who do believe.
( Happens in C of E churches too - we all knew which parents were just there to get their DCs into the secondary school locally!)

Attendance at church and access to schools should not be linked. If that meant taking tax revenue from something else to "buy out" the 10% contribution from the church, i would be happy.

If that doesn't happen, believers have to accept that non-believers will abide by the objective criteria in order to get a place and that there is nothing unlawful or immoral in doing so.

There are objective criteria - baptism by a certain time and church attendance. OP is meeting the objective criteria. She might be lying to the church about what's in her mind, but that's not, and cannot be, the admission criteria.

But see my post below - very few priests will agree to baptise a child unless that family is known to the parish, and at least one of the parents is Catholic. Catholicism is really not that easy to fake - quite aside from sticking out like a sore thumb if you don't know the responses, or can't answer the questions at a baptism preparation course, many priests will require sight of the parent's original baptismal certificate before they will arrange to baptise the child.

see I don't understand that either infinite- you don't prey because is lying- lying to whom?

I don't disagree, 404. Again, though, if OP is prepared to pass whatever is set by her local priest before her child can be baptised, then she's fulfilled the criteria.

This seems very calculated and dishonest.

On the other hand, if your child were baptised and instructed in the catholic faith she would get a moral upbringing that is clearly lacking at home.

Of course the Priest wouldn't be able to work out your motives.

Don't be daft, she's not going to get a moral upbringing from Catholicism unless you consider paedophile priests, homophobia or misogyny morality

(Only slightly tongue in cheek since the Catholic Church has all
These things in abundance)

Dds school arranged days at all the secondary school and dd fell in love with a Catholic school. They also had the same priority and the third one was something like a child of any religion attending any church, and I told dd that we will put it as her first choice but that it's likely she may not get a place there as we are not religious. She or dh hasn't been christened and last time I was in a church was my Dad's funeral four years ago. So we put the school as preference expecting her to get the second choice the closest comp, which has just come out of special measures.

She got a place at the Catholic school and was over the moon. There's about 250 children in her new year group and she's by no means not the only non religious child. I couldn't have lied to get her in and I'd have felt worse making her lie too. She wouldn't have been able to do it and would have been stressed, so we agreed to just put it down and see what happens.

Could you do the same? Worst case scenario it's a no and you get another school instead?

(My local comp has merged with another school in another town as both were struggling, it's not working either as there's only been 40
Students across y7 over both schools apply this year. I can see the one here closing to be honest, nobody wants it due to the special measures, yet the children in my family who go all love it, they have all done great grade wise and are all well behaved, respectful kids, I'd hoped dd would go there but things didn't work out that way)

Whilst I would certainly advocate going to see both school and not just going on hearsay or Ofsted, I don't have any issue with this, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I don't think that any state school should be able to exclude on the basis of religion. It should be for a parents to decide if they are happy for their child to be educated within that religion, but the school should have the same sibling/distance etc criteria as we very other state school. I'm not sure about Cathoilc schools but certainly CofE schools were set up to educate the local community.

And secondly, you never know, the OP's family may actually enjoy being part of the church community, that certainly happened to a friend who has become a very active member of the church she initially joined to get her child a school place (ie above and beyond what was 'needed', she's now there because she wants to be).

But visits to the schools should be your first move.

"This seems very calculated and dishonest. "

Moving near to an outstanding school is calculated, but not dishonest. This is the same.

bit early for visits to the school since it's another 2 years before applying however if you do want a chance at applying you will need to start attending church before the end of this year. You can hold off on the baptism for now as the church attendance is more urgent. That second category of supported by priest is for situations where parents are attending a church outside the local parish ie they still go to the parish church from their previous address or have moved into the parish and now attend that church but attended elsewhere previously.

Jaquetta I believe they can lose their place as attending regular mass is one of their criteria.

If the Catholic School is still a state school they usually have to take a certain percentage (at my son's school it was 15%) of non-Catholic children to get the state funding.

My son was non-catholic but fell into the category of a baptised child, baptised in another Christian faith and got a place at his outstanding very local school.

It was the right school for him as they were stricter discipline wise than other local schools - just right for him.

Here

I think it has to be on the criteria but if it is, say, category 6, the school may never take a child in that group.

Super

I am quite surprised if a school is allowed to demand that for years on end or take away a. Place.

If it's a faith school, of course they can. What's hard to understand about it? The school undertake to educate your child in the Catholic (or whichever) faith.
If you have an issue with being "forced" to attend church, maybe you shouldn't try so hard to get your child into a faith school in the first place?

Doesn't affect me, flogging.

I'm just surprised that it doesn't contravene the admissions code to have a condition that goes on for years when for example, moving out of the "catchment" area after you've been at the school for a while is usually fine.

Are you sure it's legal to take away a Childs school place? They're not private, the LEA will still govern them

Of course a place can't be removed under those circumstances, whatever the head may tell you.

But how do priests know you've been attending regularly?

I can see how this work in a small parish. But the local Catholic church we attend is huge and serves several urban communities - there are at least 150 people at each Mass. After each mass, the priests file out and don't hang about to chat to people.

So, given that every mass on Saturday and Sunday is full (there are several each day), and several priests, how do they keep tabs on who has actually attended and who hasn't?

Surely, when you ask them to sign the school letter thing, they can't possibly refuse given that they don't know who's been in and out each week?

Genuinely puzzled.

WeSail, I believe there are forms that parents get signed off every week so that there is a paper trail.

I'd be surprised if any school required those forms to carry on being signed for seven years though!

they can't possibly refuse. Are you serious?

I find your whole post really insulting.

Who was that too, waitrose

To! Oops