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Original poster

Daughter in the neighbour's carpark

108 replies

iancoady · 24/05/2014 17:50

We moved into a great cul-de-sac around 5 years ago, and most of our elderly neighbours are brilliant. Our 7 year old daughter makes cards for our 3 closest neighbours and has recently started 'popping round' for a chat, a drink and a biscuit.

On the opposite side of the road is a woman who can only be described as a busy body. I once turned my car around in her drive and there she was banging on the window and gesturing at me. It did no harm whatsoever but I've respected her (somewhat petty) wishes and not turned the car around there since.

Recently though, my daughter has started playing out the front of the house (so her other friends in the road can see her when they get home from school) but due to the large volumes of traffic in the road we have asked her to play in the two communal car parks in the road.

These are two large open spaces where residents know what their space is but they are not marked out in any way. As most residents also have garages AND drives these are rarely used, so provide a great off-road play area that is reasonably large.

Yesterday my daughter came in in tears as she had been playing 'schools' in the car park (she says she was pretending to teach Spanish and wasn't any louder than talking) when the woman started banging on her window and gesturing for her to get out of the car park. The poor thing was crying because she didn't even know what she had done.

My first reaction was to knock on her door and have a go at her but I try not to act impulsively as we all still have to live in the same street at the end of the day.

My first question is am I unreasonable to let my daughter play in the street providing she is not noisy (and she really isn't)?

Secondly, if the car park is a communal area, should she be allowed to play in there?

Finally, as I'm not even sure if this woman has a space in the communal car park (given she also has a drive and a garage) how can I find out if she does without checking the deeds to her house?

Any help you can give is appreciated, as I've already decided I need to talk to this woman and tell her that she isn't to interact with my daughter again. If she has an issue then she knows where I or my wife are and she can talk directly to us. Just not sure what to do about the rest.

OP posts:
Pagwatch · 25/05/2014 08:18

I put gates across my drive to stop people turning around.
Because of our location fucking gazillions of people did it. We have a gravel drive and everytime someone did it the dogs started barking. Drove me batty.
Plus the people turning started parking sometimes, or got used to doing it so they would swing in barely looking and my dd sometimes played out the front.
Once something crosses a line and annoys you, you can't stop being irritated by it. It's like an itch. It became gates or a gun turret.

treaclesoda · 25/05/2014 08:21

There is no park where I live, I'd have to drive ten mins in the car to get to a park, and no bike riding is allowed in it.

We live in a small quiet cul de sac and all the children play out together in front of the houses from the age of about 4 . It's a dead end and frankly impossible to drive at speed so I'm fine with it, and all the parents can see out the window to keep an eye on them. DC also have friends round to play and give to soft play occasionally but the joy of playing out is that it's just there and it's spontaneous and whoever is at home can join in.

Funnily enough, by the age of ten or eleven I'd rather they weren't hanging round outside like that because that's when peer pressure starts to kick in and I'd be afraid of them getting up to something they shouldn't.

BellaVita · 25/05/2014 08:24

7 is not too young to play out.

Her going round to the houses for a drink/biscuit is a nice thing to do, they could be old and not have many visitors. It is probably the highlight if their day.

Turning around in someone's drive? Do you mean you just drove/backed up from the dropped kerb on to the pavement outside her house without actually going up her drive to give you extra turning room? Then I think this is acceptable.

SavoyCabbage · 25/05/2014 08:26

Why take the risk of them playing out? So they can have a nice time.

I loved playing out when I was a child and I love my children playing out too. They need that freedom to play without thinking about noise or mess or being influenced by adults.

I went away with four other families and the dc spent very moment playing outside. On bikes, building things, chasing each other, exploring, playing imaginative games, climbing trees etc.

They weren't interested in the board games or craft activities we took. Nobody mentioned iPads. And when we put a movie on one night there was disappointment. It was seen as a waste of their time. Playing out on their own without being told to tie their shoelaces was their choice of what they wanted to do.

OwlCapone · 25/05/2014 08:26

I think that, in many cases, paranoid parents are what is wrong with playing out.

OwlCapone · 25/05/2014 08:28

why risk it for the sake of them playing out under 10?

What makes 10 the magic age? DD at 7 is far more sensible than DS2 at 13.

KatieKaye · 25/05/2014 08:31

Playing outside with your friends - brilliant.
Having your mum there and allowed no independent time is not so great. Children need age appropriate boundaries, which change as they mature. Not allowing your child to walk to school (alone or with friends), to play outside without you hovering in the background, to walk to a friends house etc is not helping them to adjust to the bigger world and is denying them the chance to develop important skills. Plus the other children will notice that their peer is over-protected and think it strange.

Sparklingbrook · 25/05/2014 08:31

The window for playing out the front is not that long-7 is fine. By 10 or 11 mine were up at the park.

drinkingtea · 25/05/2014 08:55

Katie I agree; on our road all the 5/6 - 10ish year olds play out, plus a couple of "young" 11-13 year olds who still like the same kind of play, which is fine too. There are only 2 6 year olds who are accompanied by parents - one has some "issues" (parents are lovely, and his sister is too - he can be, but can fly off the handle and does need supervising) and the other has a paraniod set of parents. Nobody wants to play with the 2nd noy as his mum intervenes in games to male sure everything goes his way, and "helps" him low level bully the others - no shock the others stay away from him most of the time, and he's often stuck playing with his mum with a face like thunder...

SixImpossible · 25/05/2014 08:55

Living in a cul de sac with no pavements, where all of our properties extend right to the road, I would find it annoyingif neighbours used my driveway to turn around in. The dc - who are allowed to play out from younger than 7 - know that they can leave toys on the driveway until they have finished playing. All the neighbours, including those without children, and most of the visitors are careful to use the turning spaces rather than the driveways. So IMO she WNBU to be annoyed at you using her driveway.

As for the rest, YANBU to let your dd out to play, nothing wrong with letting her play in the cul de sac's communal car park (as long as it's not the sort of space that drivers sweep blindly into), and elderly neighbour IBVU.

What AnnieLobeseder said.

APlaceInTheWinter · 26/05/2014 12:10

I wouldn't speak to the neighbour about what happened. It seems to be clear that she was knocking on the window because she didn't think your dd should be playing in the car park.

Personally I agree with her. Car drivers don't expect dcs in car parks and if your dc is engrossed in her game, she might not be as aware of traffic as she should be. It's ok saying it's fine because people drive slowly in the estate but not all visitors will; there could be taxis, etc. Plus I just think it sets a bad precedent to teach children that car parks are a playing space. They're not.

Also, unless you've seen the deeds for all the other properties, some of them might have designated spaces so perhaps your dd was playing in her space. In our estate about five of the houses have designated spaces. It's in their deeds but there are no markings on the ground and people new to the estate (or who don't particularly talk to those neighbours) don't know about it. It's an odd situation because none of the other houses have designated spaces but I don't think it's unique.

Sparklingbrook · 26/05/2014 12:21

These are two large open spaces where residents know what their space is but they are not marked out in any way. As most residents also have garages AND drives these are rarely used, so provide a great off-road play area that is reasonably large.

Car parks rarely used. Don't think drivers are a problem from what Op says. I would be having a chat with her to see what her problem was.

AlpacaLypse · 26/05/2014 12:41

OP has stated he turned round in the lady's drive, realised she was cross about it and hasn't done it since. Clearly he feels she's a bit U about that but he's respected her wishes and not done it since. To me he's said this to show that the lady may have a bit of a grudge towards him and his family and this may be colouring the way she treats OP's daughter. Since we'd accuse him of drip-feeding if he hadn't mentioned the drive-turning incident until halfway down the second page I'm glad he included it in the OP. Anyway, this thread isn't about the rights or wrongs of using other people's driveways to turn, but the best way to ensure that OP's dd continues to be able to play out without being harassed in a place that OP considers to be safe.

My first question is am I unreasonable to let my daughter play in the street providing she is not noisy (and she really isn't)?

No, not U. Only if the street is full of speeding cars!

Secondly, if the car park is a communal area, should she be allowed to play in there?

Yes of course.

Finally, as I'm not even sure if this woman has a space in the communal car park (given she also has a drive and a garage) how can I find out if she does without checking the deeds to her house?

Do your deeds specifically include the right to park in that carpark? If yours do and the houses were all built at the same time and are about the same size, chances are hers do too.

feathermucker · 01/06/2014 00:44

Sounds pretty similar to my estate OP.

YOU are the best judge of your child's safety, no - one else. If you feel the space is appropriate, then it will be fine.

My DS is nearly 8 and has played out since he was 4/5, with boundaries and limits being increased appropriately with age and maturity.

I think you need to have a chat with your neighbour. There may have to be give and take here for the sake of keeping the peace. She should not be gesturing and shouting at your daughter, no way, but sometimes people are set in their ways, not used to children, older etc. We have a similar neighbour who used to swear at the children and shout. After a chat, it was easier to understand his views (though I did call him on the swearing)

To those suggesting Brownies etc, nowt wrong with playing out :-)

Mutley77 · 01/06/2014 01:15

Personally I think 7 is too young to play out alone. My 5 year old is perfectly sensible and plays out but always with other children (even if just my older daughter). Things can happen to scare them (a car coming too fast, a neighbour telling them off etc) and I think they are also more vulnerable to being enticed away if on their own; ok its a v small chance but does happen unfortunately, April Jones is the most recent I can think of.

TiredFeet · 01/06/2014 07:09

You can check ownership of the car park on the land registry website (for a small fee)

W00woo · 01/06/2014 08:11

Hi

Just wanted to say my grandparents neighbours child used to pop in to say hello and have a tea and buiscuit. They did not have many visitors in the week.

They did not find it charming or a delight. They used to find her demanding and an irritant. My gran used to say 'isn't it time you went home' and she use to say 'no'. And the mother always used to say 'she loves coming to see you, you don't mind do you' and they used to just smile and mutter. Maybe they should have been honest from the outset, but they were too polite.

In the end they hid from her. Inside telly on low, sitting where they could not be seen from window. And the kid knocked for nearly half hour!

This went on for quite some time and made their lives miserable. My aunt intervened and the mother then used to make loud comments along the lines of 'don't bother them' and ignore them after that. Equally unpleasent really.

Sparklingbrook · 01/06/2014 08:29

That's a sad tale WOO Sad If they didn't like her they shouldn't have given her tea and a biscuit, just told her it wasn't convenient and not invited her in. It's not hard.

W00woo · 01/06/2014 08:41

I agree, I would hAve told her where to go, but she asked and they were too polite to say no. I think they were bemused the first time it happened and then in a short space of time it was nearly every evening after school and during the morning on weekends.

As I remember my gran was put out that the mother did not realise and put a stop to it, we all told her that she could not expect her to be a mind reader. In the end they were worried about unpleasantness. Which is what ended up
Happening but my aunt couldn't let it go on.

They were nearly 90 and my gran was quite poorly. It was very stressful for them.

Sparklingbrook · 01/06/2014 08:51

Yes, I think the key is not to start anything. Once they get let in the first time IYKWIM. It is hard.

There is a boy that calls for DS2 that he doesn't want to play with. He went out to play with him once, and realised but now the doorbell is ringing every 5 minutes, and he has to make excuses. Sad

W00woo · 01/06/2014 08:55

I agree - best not to start.

Poor you and ds - I hope you not at hiding point yet sparkling:-)

Sparklingbrook · 01/06/2014 09:01

We may have hidden a couple of times WOO. Sad If you say he's doing homework the doorbell goes every 15 minutes to ask if he's finished. then the child sits at the bottom of the drive waiting.

FrontForward · 01/06/2014 09:11

I don't mind people turning on the bit of the driveway that is over the pavement but if they came onto my property I'd be annoyed. I have a small dog, small child and leave objects lying around because and don't want them run over.

I have a neighbour who'd love my child to pop around for a drink and biscuit but I also have 5 other neighbours who wouldn't welcome it.

I have been at the other end of children incessantly banging on a back door and asking to come in. They lack the usual social skill of recognising when they are not wanted and if bored will put their need for company and a biscuit first. You have to be quite brutal to get rid of them which many people don't like to do to a child.

As for playing in a car park...tricky because some kids will damage cars inadvertently and others won't.

I don't think you can control what this lady does, anymore than she can control what your child does.

Cocolepew · 01/06/2014 09:15

I can't believe that people think a child playing out in her own street is a problem Confused. So what if she's louder thant talking volume? Unles she's shouting in the letterbox it's not really a problem is it?
I live in a cul de sac and the age range now is 12-17 DD1 was playing out from age 7 and DD2 from aged 4.
DD2 and her friend still play out , football etc.

Raskova · 01/06/2014 09:22

There is a car park where I live and it's always used and mainly full.

I have told all the kids not to play there because they damage the cars. They said they don't but I know they have on two occasions. One was my car and my neighbour rang me so I could catch them in action. The mother was there but would not have told me otherwise and another time, the father said his son may have hit the car but denied he could have caused the damage. If they don't play there, they can't be accused can they and I dot have to worry.

Have you been round yet? I'd just say hi, I made it clear you were upset with my daughter the other day. What was it that upset you? What would you like me to do about it?