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AMA

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Woman, ask me anything.

817 replies

Jewishbookwork · 01/01/2024 13:53

On the thread @Israelilefty started, people were asking about Orthodox Judaism. So I am starting (another) one here. Other Orthodox Jewish women are welcome to answer too, so we have more of a range of answers.

I am Chabad Chasidic, we are very religious - I wear a wig, my husband wears black and white and we have lots of books in hebrew in our house.

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Cantalever · 29/10/2024 15:42

It would be nice to think that all choices women make regarding what they wear and how they behave in relation to their religion, are because of personal choice and autonomy. Unfortunately that is not the case. Even where no actual pressure or instruction is issued, women will usually have internalised the oppressive tenets of their faith - I am not picking any one in particular as all the Abrahamic faiths are patriarchal and oppress women in various ways. So if a Christian woman chooses to cover her head in church, for example, when she does not have to, it is because she has internalised her subordinate status and accepts it. The same is true of a hijab or burqua voluntarily worn, and of wigs worn by orthodox Jewish women. They are all symbols of female subjection in a male dominated faith. It is extraordinary to me that many women do not see the patriarchal subjection they are under, and voluntarily collude with and normalise it. It is heartbreaking to think of how they bring up their daughters in this mindset instead of challenging it.

Cantalever · 29/10/2024 16:46

Gummybear23 · 29/10/2024 15:14

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
The topic of women's choices in religion, especially regarding dress and lifestyle, is often subject to biased narratives, sometimes fueled by media portrayals and particular political perspectives. For instance, women who choose to wear the hijab in Islam may face assumptions that they’re oppressed, even though many wear it out of personal conviction. Similarly, women in Orthodox Judaism who follow specific dress codes or lifestyles also do so out of choice and belief, yet they may encounter fewer assumptions about oppression.
A deeper issue here might be how the media frames "choice" for women in religious contexts, which can sometimes reflect cultural biases rather than respect for individual autonomy. Many women in both Islam and Judaism, as well as other faiths, find empowerment and identity through their practices, so it’s vital to understand these choices as deeply personal and unique to each individual.

My post just above was answering this one, but the quote did not load. So not directly addressed to OP or anyone else.

Gummybear23 · 29/10/2024 17:20

I appreciate your points and share your perspective.
There does seem to be a two-tier bias when it comes to how different faiths are portrayed in the media. For example, we frequently read in certain sections of the press that people following Islam face accusations of not integrating or have misconceptions about women’s roles and freedoms.
However, similar discussions rarely arise about Jewish communities, despite both faiths having certain shared values around dress codes, education, marriage, and community life. Both communities also emphasise close-knit neighborhoods, have religious schools, and, in the case of Judaism, even their own community amambulances.

There are positives in both these communities.
Although I agree there should be opportunities to challenge such norms without fear of being ostracized.

Jewishbookwork · 29/10/2024 18:53

Gummybear23 · 29/10/2024 17:20

I appreciate your points and share your perspective.
There does seem to be a two-tier bias when it comes to how different faiths are portrayed in the media. For example, we frequently read in certain sections of the press that people following Islam face accusations of not integrating or have misconceptions about women’s roles and freedoms.
However, similar discussions rarely arise about Jewish communities, despite both faiths having certain shared values around dress codes, education, marriage, and community life. Both communities also emphasise close-knit neighborhoods, have religious schools, and, in the case of Judaism, even their own community amambulances.

There are positives in both these communities.
Although I agree there should be opportunities to challenge such norms without fear of being ostracized.

Edited

I have no idea if there is a really a 2 tier system in how reporting on these communities occurs. There are a lot more Muslims in the UK so that might be why. Does anyone really object to Muslims wearing specific clothing such as shalwar kameez or eating halal food? Of course, there will be people who object to anyone who isn't white, of British ancestry, and C of E.

@Gummybear23 if you don't mind me asking, are you Muslim? I usually notice news about the Jewish community (positive or negative). If you are Muslim it makes sense you would notice peices about Islam.

There are also Christians who have very conservative values, probably other religions too.

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Gummybear23 · 29/10/2024 19:13

Jewishbookwork · 29/10/2024 18:53

I have no idea if there is a really a 2 tier system in how reporting on these communities occurs. There are a lot more Muslims in the UK so that might be why. Does anyone really object to Muslims wearing specific clothing such as shalwar kameez or eating halal food? Of course, there will be people who object to anyone who isn't white, of British ancestry, and C of E.

@Gummybear23 if you don't mind me asking, are you Muslim? I usually notice news about the Jewish community (positive or negative). If you are Muslim it makes sense you would notice peices about Islam.

There are also Christians who have very conservative values, probably other religions too.

There does appear to be a disparity in how certain communities are reported on in the UK, and it’s plausible that the larger Muslim population may lead to more coverage in general. However, I think it's worth questioning why much of this coverage often skews negative. People’s choices around dress (like wearing the shalwar kameez or eating halal food) are often unfairly politicised, and unfortunately, cultural expression and religious identity can become targets. As an atheist, I feel strongly that people should be free to express their cultural and religious identities without fear of judgment or discrimination.
It’s especially troubling to see past and present politicians use divisive language that directly fuels these issues. For instance, when Boris Johnson referred to Muslim women as "letterboxes," it not only displayed a lack of respect for individual choices but also intensified harmful stereotypes. Women, in particular, seem to face disproportionate abuse, often portrayed as "oppressed" based solely on their attire or religious choices.
This isn't just about numbers; history has shown that minority groups, irrespective of size, can become targets when societal narratives are influenced by fear and bias. In the 1980s, gay men were stigmatised and blamed for the AIDS epidemic despite being a minority, highlighting how prejudice is driven by underlying attitudes rather than population size.
The media, unfortunately, plays a significant role here. Certain outlets seem intent on stirring conflict by framing stories in ways that fuel division rather than understanding. This isn’t unique to any one community. It’s about a tendency within parts of the press to sensationalise and polarize.
And yes, it’s common to notice more news coverage about communities we identify with or have a connection to, just as people in other communities might feel the same. But these issues of bias and representation affect everyone, as they shape public perceptions and, ultimately, the way society treats its members.

Jewishbookwork · 29/10/2024 21:43

If it makes anyone feel at all better, men in my community have pretty strict dress codes too. Wool tzitzit, a kippa all the time, men wear suits mostly and dress shirts. Often a hat and kapota (long silk jacket thing) as well.

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Cantalever · 30/10/2024 10:44

Jewishbookwork · 29/10/2024 21:43

If it makes anyone feel at all better, men in my community have pretty strict dress codes too. Wool tzitzit, a kippa all the time, men wear suits mostly and dress shirts. Often a hat and kapota (long silk jacket thing) as well.

Is there religious significance attached to these dress codes for men? Or is it more to do with cultural identity. ie. marking them out as different from society in general or other Jewish groups? I am interested in the difference for men's clothes, as it seems that women's dress rules in all the major religions are to do with suppressing if not oppressing women. For example the various head coverings (symbols of subjection to male rule), modesty requirements (covering up the body to make life easier for men to control their sexual urges) - these are common to some denominations in all the Abrahamic, ie patriarchal faiths. An example among many is so called purity culture in some American churches.

Offthepath · 31/10/2024 07:23

Gummybear23 · 28/10/2024 21:39

Social.acceptance and conformity can be a hindrance in all walks of society.

Hopefully the partners and family allow the women to do how they wish.

Otherwise it is sad and controlling of women .😔

I'm no longer religious, so I'm not here to defend it. But I don't think the "poor little women" thing applies at all. Many religious women are not to be messed with ;-)
It's not usually men controlling women's dress, it's usually women doing it to each other. Sometimes it's even competitiveness or snobbery more than religion. It's a cultural thing, a marker of identity.
In Israel most ultra religious women are much better educated than the men, and much better paid.

Gummybear23 · 31/10/2024 09:28

Offthepath · 31/10/2024 07:23

I'm no longer religious, so I'm not here to defend it. But I don't think the "poor little women" thing applies at all. Many religious women are not to be messed with ;-)
It's not usually men controlling women's dress, it's usually women doing it to each other. Sometimes it's even competitiveness or snobbery more than religion. It's a cultural thing, a marker of identity.
In Israel most ultra religious women are much better educated than the men, and much better paid.

You raise some good points about cultural and social dynamics within religious communities, and I agree that it can be more complex than just men controlling women’s choices. However, there’s also evidence that some women do experience control in these environments. Many women who have chosen to leave orthodox communities have shared their stories of restricted freedom, particularly around dress and lifestyle, which they felt were imposed by community or family expectations.
Of course, every experience is unique, and plenty of women find empowerment and purpose within these structures. But hearing from those who’ve broken away can add valuable perspective to the conversation, showing that for some, these restrictions feel less like cultural markers and more like limitations on their personal freedom.

nevertrustanyoneagain · 13/12/2024 22:49

I have Jewish maternal heritage, but all maternal line deceased now.They were non practising. I am very disillusioned with my life and current religion and have been researching orthodox Judaism. I really want to join and participate but there is no active community or synagogue in my area. Also my family are reluctant and want to stay in our current religion. What is your suggestion please? @Jewishbookwork

EllaDisenchanted · 14/12/2024 16:15

nevertrustanyoneagain · 13/12/2024 22:49

I have Jewish maternal heritage, but all maternal line deceased now.They were non practising. I am very disillusioned with my life and current religion and have been researching orthodox Judaism. I really want to join and participate but there is no active community or synagogue in my area. Also my family are reluctant and want to stay in our current religion. What is your suggestion please? @Jewishbookwork

Hi @nevertrustanyoneagain , @Jewishbookwork won’t be online until earliest late tonight , if she comes on at all, as Shabbat begins at sundown and Friday and goes out at nightfall on Saturday, and Orthodox Jews won’t use Internet/phone etc in that time. (I’m in Israel and it’s night here already).
I’m not really sure what to answer you, but it might be worth reaching out to organisations who have experience with helping Jewish people who are non practicing, but interested in religion- SEED, or Chabad (lubavitch). Jewishbookwork probably knows more.

coxesorangepippin · 15/12/2024 02:18

Great thread, many thanks

Jewishbookwork · 15/12/2024 19:36

nevertrustanyoneagain · 13/12/2024 22:49

I have Jewish maternal heritage, but all maternal line deceased now.They were non practising. I am very disillusioned with my life and current religion and have been researching orthodox Judaism. I really want to join and participate but there is no active community or synagogue in my area. Also my family are reluctant and want to stay in our current religion. What is your suggestion please? @Jewishbookwork

Where do you live? Who are your family? Husband, kids?

I would echo @EllaDisenchanted. Contact your nearest Chabad centre or Orthodox synagogue, they may be able to help you.

If you would like to research more about Orthodox Judaism there are lots of websites and podcasts you can access wherever you are. Chabad.org and several others.

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Foreigners88 · 15/12/2024 21:27

In terms of faith what do you believe about the Messiah?

skyana · 16/12/2024 22:55

@Goldypants I love how it's understanding in this community but in south Asian communities, the west look down upon it and mock..

skyana · 16/12/2024 23:16

@Jewishbookwork just to correct your misinformation, shalwar kameez isn't a Muslim attire. If you go to Arab countries, you will not find them in shalwar kameez.

Shalwar kameez is a south asian attire, and has nothing to do with religion rather a cultural dress, that Hindus and Sikhs also wear.

MissEmmaCrackenthorpe · 28/12/2024 18:56

I think my last question was hat related, and this is too...
The little boys in Stamford Hill just wear their skull caps, then it seems that once they have made their Bar Mitzvah they (depending on which schul they attend) get a wide-brimmed velvet hat (or for other congregations, a fedora-ish hat). But what happens if the boy can't remember his portion (because he has educational needs maybe) and can't make Bar Mitzvah? There's a chap locally who spends most of his time outside his Yeshiva with the security guard still with just a yarmulke and he must be in his 30s now. No Bar Mitzvah: No fancy hat? (I feel sorry for him). Thank You. (I am a historical costumer in another life, and I like to get things right)

DorotheaDiamond · 28/12/2024 22:29

Bar Mitzvah isn’t a pass/fail - at the age of 13 a boy is Bar Mitzvah and counts as a man for forming a minyan (group of 10 men needed for some prayers) regardless of any reading. The hat thing is purely cultural within each community I assume the man you see has just chosen not to wear one - the only requirement is to have the head covered - a baseball cap is just as acceptable as a streimel (the big shiny hat) .

Jewishbookwork · 01/01/2025 19:21

MissEmmaCrackenthorpe · 28/12/2024 18:56

I think my last question was hat related, and this is too...
The little boys in Stamford Hill just wear their skull caps, then it seems that once they have made their Bar Mitzvah they (depending on which schul they attend) get a wide-brimmed velvet hat (or for other congregations, a fedora-ish hat). But what happens if the boy can't remember his portion (because he has educational needs maybe) and can't make Bar Mitzvah? There's a chap locally who spends most of his time outside his Yeshiva with the security guard still with just a yarmulke and he must be in his 30s now. No Bar Mitzvah: No fancy hat? (I feel sorry for him). Thank You. (I am a historical costumer in another life, and I like to get things right)

the hats are worn/not worn whatever a boy is able to do at his bar mitzva.

I have seen several boys with special needs/lesser abilities have bar mitzvas.

They don't need to read from the torah, there are other things they can do that are just as valid.

Lots of men don't wear hats, or don't wear them all the time. My husband doesn't wear his all the time, he will wear it for shul and other occasions. A hat is worn in addition to a kippa, kippa stays on always, even when sleeping, by very orthodox/hasidic men (some groups have a cotton sleeping kippah). A hat or streimel is worn in addition.

Also, i think streimels are just worn on shabbat and holidays.

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pepperaunt · 06/01/2025 15:07

Thank you @Jewishbookwork . I’m a non-practicing Jew (though very culturally attuned!) and this has been so informative!

argyllherewecome · 06/01/2025 22:04

If it's not too crude OP do you both cover your hair when sleeping together? I read somewhere that some women never uncover their hair post marriage, even with their husband, as a married woman's hair has some sort of sexual 'charge?' Also read something about sex on post mikva night being mandatory, because the family of Moses or Aaron didn't and they were cursed because of it? I'm sure I've got some of the details wrong but hopefully you know what I mean!

EllaDisenchanted · 06/01/2025 23:51

argyllherewecome · 06/01/2025 22:04

If it's not too crude OP do you both cover your hair when sleeping together? I read somewhere that some women never uncover their hair post marriage, even with their husband, as a married woman's hair has some sort of sexual 'charge?' Also read something about sex on post mikva night being mandatory, because the family of Moses or Aaron didn't and they were cursed because of it? I'm sure I've got some of the details wrong but hopefully you know what I mean!

Not the OP, but I'm also an Orthodox Jewish woman, and can give you my perspective - neither me nor DH cover our hair/head in bed. Sex on mikva night is not mandatory, although I think it's preferable for there to be skin to skin contact on the night. Generally though, it's very much looked forward to, and enjoyable because of the break, but there have been times where we've been too tired, and on a couple of occasions wDH and I were in different cities on Mikva night.

I do personally uncover my hair in my home, which not all women will do, but tbh, once I have put on a head covering or sheitel (wig) then I don't generally take it off when I come home, unless it is uncomfortable for some reason, so it tends to be covered at home most of the time, except in the bedroom.

No idea about Moshe/Aaron family being cursed sorry. Also not sure about hair having a sexual charge? OP can probably answer that better than me!

superplumb · 12/01/2025 19:13

Do you integrate into non Jewish communities? Do you have friends who do not follow your faith?

Jewishbookwork · 15/01/2025 10:51

argyllherewecome · 06/01/2025 22:04

If it's not too crude OP do you both cover your hair when sleeping together? I read somewhere that some women never uncover their hair post marriage, even with their husband, as a married woman's hair has some sort of sexual 'charge?' Also read something about sex on post mikva night being mandatory, because the family of Moses or Aaron didn't and they were cursed because of it? I'm sure I've got some of the details wrong but hopefully you know what I mean!

I don't but my husband seems to magically keep his kippa on always, pretty sure even when we have sex.

We try and have sex on mikva night but there have been times it hasn't happened, travelling or other circumstances.

I cover my hair at home except in the bedroom.

Some women are very careful about always keeping their hair covered, all sorts of reasons exist. There is a story about a woman who never let her hair be uncovered and merited to have all her sons be high priests.

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Jewishbookwork · 15/01/2025 10:54

superplumb · 12/01/2025 19:13

Do you integrate into non Jewish communities? Do you have friends who do not follow your faith?

I have some non Jewish friends, not many though.

Lots of less religious than me Jewish friends.

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