I'm an Orthodox Jewish Woman, ask me anything.

[Jewishbookwork]

On the thread @Israelilefty started, people were asking about Orthodox Judaism. So I am starting (another) one here. Other Orthodox Jewish women are welcome to answer too, so we have more of a range of answers.

I am Chabad Chasidic, we are very religious - I wear a wig, my husband wears black and white and we have lots of books in hebrew in our house.

Hope you both had a lovely Shabbat and welcome back 💐

How many sets of dishes do you have? One milk, one meat... I've read/watched that some have milk/meat for every day, m/m for shabbat, m/m for Pesach and other m/m guest sets. I follow one Sephardi woman who says glass are suitable for both so she only needs one set, which is very handy! (Sephardic seem to have different rules?).

That really depends on family, community and the girl herself. How self aware she is, how confident she is. I have a distant relative who never wanted to get married and never did, and her family accepted it.

No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to get married and it would be pretty easy to say no to every suggested match.

There is something called a 'shidduch crises' right now, not sure if that is the case in the UK, (i know it is to some extent in the UK Chabad community, not familiar with other communties as much) but absolutely in the US frum community, where there are lots of single older women who are unable to find a match.

So it would be REALLY easy to just be one of the 'unlucky' young women who can't find a shidduch.

I insist on making homemade challah each week which absolutely prolongs the shabbos prep.

Otherwise I do either fish, one salad (made on shabbos), a few dips - usually chummus, an aubergine dip, maybe something else like pesto. Or instead of fish and salad I do chicken soup with knaidlich, lokshen and osem croutons. Then chicken, green beans and one or two carby sides which changes weekly. Rice, orzo, kugel of some type, roast veggies.

I always bake something. This week it was brownies. I make a big batch and freeze extras for another week so each week i might have two or three choices. Plus fresh fruit and this week i bought some chocolate kokosh cake.

Lunch is dips, challah, fish or cold meat/schnitzle, salad, maybe cholent.

I dont know if that was the initial intention but I can see how things like free degrees and a bit of money at the start make it an attractive prospect for a young person. Many young people (Jewish and otherwise) can struggle to start out in the west particularly when many 'entry level jobs' require experience and the graduate experience often involves living with your parents or grotty flatshare in an expensive city with zero eligibility for any benefits or help from government.. On the other hand programs like masa offer free rent for a bit and there are subsidies for those from poorer families.

Very different for someone like me who has their own home in London of course and is a bit older, aliyah would be a big hit to my living standards and as I married at 22, this meant that becoming settled in London with career and own home was something that felt immediately within reach. It's different for a single particularly one with no romantic partners. My DH's family are orthodox BTW but I would say they are more MO though my DH went to a chabad primary school..

One of my BIL said his aliyah coincided with his employer terminating his work contract (though he was thinking about it too). But of course as you say the reality of life in Israel hits home as you grow older.

just one of each for year round, both from ikea.

For pesach just one set for meat, we have a tiny amount of dairy stuff, no proper china.

No guest sets.

I haven't read the whole thread, but my question is, do you feel strongly about children who marry out of the faith?
Also, do you sit shiva for a death? Do you celebrate Yom Kippour ? (Sorry for any wrong spelling, my take on Jewish families is taken from Maisie Mosco's books).

On that note, do you feel your particular community in UK promote standards that are too high and/or go against the meaning of the Jewish faith? I ask that (and I asked it on the Israeli lefty thread too) as from what I have seen, there is often very high material standards/expectations regarding jewellery/clothes/homes/holidays which really surprised me,and they get into a lot of debt to keep up with the Joneses. I would expect more religious people to care less about these things. Someone from US went to a wedding in SH and said she was so shocked at how simple it was. Is that a thing in UK or is it just a US thing?

I would be pretty sad if my child married out.

Yes, we sit shiva and celebrate Yom Kippur (not sure if people would describe Yom Kippur as a day to celebrate but there is some cleebration involved, mostly after it is over. )

Even very secular Jews sit shiva and observe Yom Kippur.

Well my eyes have been opened I'd never thought of the cost of housing in Israel. You need a fair bit of money behind you before deciding to live there.

Not in my Chabad circles, we live pretty simple lives. Especially in that most of my friends and family are Chabad shluchim (ie working in Jewish education or other non-profit work).

Of course some people have nicer houses and nicer clothes. In the USA it might be different, there seems to be more wealthy people.

I think religious Jews often spend money on:

1.sheitals - nice ones are expensive. My most recent one cost a lot of money but I have had it already 2 years and hope to keep it for a while longer. My previous one I had for 7 years I think. Washing it costs £50 or so.

2.Cleaning help. Having lots of kids, lots of shabbat meals and holiday meals and pesach makes this very much more necessary. And no saturday to clean.

3.Travelling - usually for weddings, bar mitzvot and other celebrations (big families) and if you are Chasidic, travelling to visit your Rebbe or the gravesite of your Rebbe (Breslov and Chabad don't have living Rebbes)

4.kitchens. It really does make life so much easier to have 2 or 3 ovens, sinks, etc so its a very worthwhile investment to spend money on improving your kitchen if you are an Orthodox Jew.

Weddings are a big thing, its not really acceptable to do a very simple wedding with ten people in my circles. But also no one I know does crazy over the top weddings.

Most people I know will choose the cheapest venue available, cheapest caterer, fake flowers etc.

My child got married and I was very fortunate that the other side of the family completely agreed with me on how much we wanted to spend on the wedding. We both have very large families - lots of siblings, cousins, neices and nephews - so that makes it more expensive. We made a beautiful but very simple wedding. We spent a bit more on the photographer to get a decent one since that is what still remains after the whole thing is over.

Isn't chabad school fees quite expensive. My MIL could afford to send two to the chabad school in Stamford hill, not all 4 so my DH's youngest two siblings were sent to the local non Jewish primary (though they went to a religious Jewish secondary, acceptable if you are MO but not if you are chabad lol). One of my SIL's friend married a chabad guy and she came back to London when the war started but went back to Israel when she realized the fees for her kids were 20k! They are very little. I think it's for two kids not one as I cant imagine they charge London prep school fees. Equally most London parents who sent their kids to prep have very small families generally

Even very secular Jews sit shiva and observe Yom Kippur

Very secular Jew here and don't mark Yom Kippur (although I agree many do). But I'd say sitting Shiva in some form is the one tradition or ritual for most secular Jews that is generally non-negotiable, even if just for one night.

It feels more spiritual than religious I guess. Also it's something that wider-family would probably frown upon if they weren't given the opportunity to mourn with the more direct family.

Ah, I forgot. education. Another thing we spend a lot of money on. There are some Jewish state schools - the Chabad girls school in Stamford Hill is now state funded, parents are still asked to make voluntary contributions. I don't think it is £10k a year though. Maybe this was another school.

Also, seminaries and Yeshivot cost a lot.

Re weddings. What sort of gifts are given to the bride and groom?

How does it vary from other types of weddings?

Mostly money, some people make gift lists.

We got a mixture of money and household items.

I have never been to a non Jewish wedding but this is a typical Jewish wedding.

approx 3/4 pm: Reception, might be finger food served at this point. Men and women seperate. Towards the end of this groom comes to bride accompanied by both fathers, the father blesses the bride, maybe some other stuff is said. The groom places a veil on the bride.

Groom goes to chuppa (with either both fathers or mother and father accompanying him)

Then bride with mothers or parents follows and wedding ceremony takes place.

groom places ring upon brides finger, seven blessings are recited, a glass is smashed. In chabad circles there are no PDAs so bride and groom won't kiss or hold hand (in other orthodox weddings they won't kiss but might hold hands)

Remember the bride and groom haven't touched until this point.

Then the bride and groom go to a yichud (alone) room. They get about 20 minutes or so when non one is allowed to come in. Being alone (with the potential to have sex although modern wedding dresses and make up and hairdos prob make that inpractical today) completes the wedding ceremony and the couple are now considered married.

Then there are wedding photos and family photos.

Meanwhile other guests just mill around, in some weddings finger food is served at this point rather then earlier.

Then there is dinner and dancing.

Very religious weddings - male side and femile side, entirely seperate seating and dancing.

M.O weddings - mixed seating, seperate dancing.

Jewish traditional - mixed seating, seperate dancing to begin with, mixed dancing after meal. (rabbis all leave at this point)

Then the bride and groom go to a yichud (alone) room. They get about 20 minutes or so when non one is allowed to come in. Being alone (with the potential to have sex although modern wedding dresses and make up and hairdos prob make that inpractical today) completes the wedding ceremony and the couple are now considered married.

The symbolism makes perfect sense, but… I don't care if I was carrying ten years of pent-up unreleased sex drive and wearing an easy-access quick-release sex-hatch — my entire extended family milling around just outside and a twenty-minute deadline is probably the best contraceptive I can possibly imagine.

Hi, hope you've all had a restful Saturday/Shabbos.
In my community there is a lot of materialistic pressure to keep up with the Jones's weather in clothing, homes etc. As always some people conform to the pressure, and some don't.

I was actually just listening to a Rabbi on a podcast who was trying to bring awareness to the importance of lowering materialistic standards. He explained that because othodox Jews live in very closely intertwined communities, there is a lot of mixing of poor, middle class and wealthy. In the majority of towns in the UK you'd have a wealthier area, middle class area and working class area, (obviously not with strict boundaries) but largely people live and mingle with those of their class.
In contrast the Jewish community is a mix of all social classes. You'd have the very wealthy on the same synagogue, schools and street as the working class and as the exposure to wealthier lifestyle increases so do the pressures.
Personally, I making an active effort to educate my children not to fall for society pressures and I try not to give much importance to unnecessary materialism.

Thanks for this. Good to see there are efforts to try to be mindful about this.
Re the yichud room. Is it normal/expected for things to get 'heated' in there? Also regarding shomer negiah, I watch a YouTuber who has never hugged or touched her FIL, she said this was something her and her husband agreed upon before marriage. Is this standard for the FIL to be an 'untouchable' person? I'd be gutted if I couldn't give my SIL a hug!

On the flipside this is one reason why Jewish schools in the UK have such good results. Yes there is an emphasis on education but in other circles the upper middle class children from educated families would have gone to grammar school or top private scholls. However as the Jewish community, they go to the same school and the school they go to is determined by their parents level of religiosity.

But surely the very poor ones couldn't afford the fees?

That sounds like a lovely wedding.

We observed a Greek Cypriot wedding reception when in a hotel in Cyprus. We were told that the whole village attended. The bride and groom received envelopes of money, some notes being pinned to the brides dress. The guests received sugared almonds. It took ages for the line to finish. There were finger foods after you had been received. It was such a joyous occasion from the children through to the elders everyone appeared to enjoy it. The reception cost was £1 per head.

We were told afterwards that the collection that day was 14k which was a lot in 1989.

The village also did this when the couple became engaged. It gave the young couple a real financial leg up to start their lives together.

The MO schools like yavneh college, jfs, hasmonean (though hasmo is a bit more conservative) do not charge fees and are state funded. Yavneh, menorah and jfs are in the top 10 Compfehensives in the country. As for hasmonean, my DH's headmaster at chabad tried to encourage him to go to hasmonean boys as a 10 year old as he knew he was leaving chabad so I suppose that means they view hasmonean as an acceptable option.

You do have to pay voluntary contributions for the religious studies but it's a few hundred. My MIL couldn't afford it and never paid but all her kids went to Jewish school (dh was in Jewish school until university). As for the haredi schools, very poor families also go to those schools, am never sure how they afford the fees, there must be bursaries.

Anyway religious Jewish families all send their children to Jewish schools. Even non religious Jewish families send our kids to Jewish schools (believe over 60% of Jewish children go to Jewish school). I am reform and it's certainly an option I am considering (for me it would be schools like akiva and jcoss which would be cross communal schools). Again those are state funded too.

Myself and most of my friends only (awkwardly) hugged and kissed in the Yichud room. One friend I know got a little more frisky. As @Raxacoricofallapatorian said, there is family right outside, and the guests are waiting, so as far as I'm aware all out sex doesn't commonly happen.
It is forbidden to have physical contact with the opposite gender who are not immediate blood relatives. So no touch with father IL and son IL. (I couldn't work out if SIL means SON in law or SIS in law. Obviously no issue to touch Sis IL.)

@literaryloveaffair what does cross communal mean in this context? Do you mean from a socio-economic angle?

It generally means it's for children of the non orthodox denominations, namely masorti, liberal and reform. There are some cross communal Jewish primary schools which allocate a few spaces to the local non Jewish community like Eden and alma.

Orthodox schools would not do this. In fact my MIL told me that for her daughters to get into their school (state funded) , she needed a letter from her rabbi saying she kept shabbos and a kosher kitchen.

Jfs and yavneh don't require this I believe, just require proof that you attend services at synagogue (similar to c of e and Catholic schools I suppose).