I'm an Orthodox Jewish Woman, ask me anything.

[Jewishbookwork]

On the thread @Israelilefty started, people were asking about Orthodox Judaism. So I am starting (another) one here. Other Orthodox Jewish women are welcome to answer too, so we have more of a range of answers.

I am Chabad Chasidic, we are very religious - I wear a wig, my husband wears black and white and we have lots of books in hebrew in our house.

1 speed cook later… tomato salad done, lokshen cooked, chickpeas spiced and roasted, 1 brownie in the oven, paprika potatoes are finishing off, chicken soup nearly boiled (from freezer).

Same here @jewishorthomum , it doesn’t take long when you’re making these things again and again. I also make up the recipes. Yeah the dips here are good 😋no chimmichurri though this week.

@justasking111 I’ve never actually cooked a turkey!

I’m Jewish, but not orthodox, but I was brought up keeping Shabbat and kosher and went to Jewish schools.

Just wanted to add that re vegetarianism - there is the Jewish Vegetarian Society which has been around since the 1960s, my parents were founder members. My late dad was a v strict vegetarian and frum (prob modern orthodox by today’s standards, we were members of the united synagogue.)
Also re the two weeks of niddah/fertility issues. My parents took 10 years to have me, probably cos my mum used the mivkah and had long and heavy periods. So by the time she was ready to have sex, she would’ve possibly ovulated. In those days 60s/early 70s there wasn’t much focus on dealing with gynaecology and fertility. I came along in their early 40s!

I have learnt from this thread as well and appreciate all the support re issue of anti-Semitism.

Quick question on the menus!

I notice both menus have ice cream -- do you have non-dairy ice cream? (Asking because I notice you are both serving meat so assume you can't have dairy straight after?)

@bowwowwowser - not the OP but Ice cream won’t be dairy!!! It’s a 3-hour wait otherwise.

I follow a few you tubers who do meal plans and they use a lot of non dairy 'dairy' in meat meals. So vegan cheese, cream etc. Non dairy ice cream seems to be very popular for shabbat.

What's the worst thing post shabbat? I remember Bernette saying it was the mountain of dishes. Are you allowed to brush/sweep the floors or wipe tables/surfaces? I don't mind organized mess but crumbs drive me mad.

The food menus all sound delicious 😋
I will be the first to admit I am not a great cook but it has never deterred me from watching endless cooking and meal prep videos which includes shabbat prep videos

Hope OP and everyone else who is observing have a lovely shabbat

What do you all think of the system of aliyah? Two of DH's siblings made aliyah and recently I just met up with them. I asked his sister's boyfriend (who is european but moved to israel to study and has now coupled up with my SIL) what was their plan re Israel now that there is a war on and he said that he is staying in israel as my SIL just completed her aliyah application and he wants to stay there long enough 'to squeeze every shekel out of Israel'. & it isn't just him, my other SIL's husband told me they eventually plan to go to america but will stay in Israel for now to perhaps have second baby as american healthcare is very expensive. my SIL made aliyah straight out of university, met their partners, one had a baby and now they will probably move back to europe/america respectively after they have gained all the benefits Israel has to offer (less and less everyday since there is a war on).

And I can't imagine this is just specific to our family. https://aish.com/18-reasons-for-making-aliyah/ Reason number 2 is you don't have to work, With some additional money from Nefesh B’Nefesh that can get you through a year or two in Israel. Enjoy that vacation. You deserve it. You moved.' Of course when a big organization like aish is making a tongue in cheek joke about people making aliyah for financial benefits that they get from the state or jewish organizations, it kinda shows it is perhaps accepted that some people will make aliyah for these reasons and they should be encouraged.

I understand the rationale of aliyah- that many Jewish people would want to live in Israel (many to escape persecution) and there should not be a financial barrier. However that is completely different from making it attractive and accessible to young people who consequently don't have the impetus to come up with a plan to support themselves long term in Israel. For any other immigrant (other than those fleeing persecution), it would be madness to move to a country without a job or funds to support yourself. However for olim, it seems completely normal. Many do make it work eventually but equally, many don't and then i suppose the state of israel has to pick up the slack or they go back to their own countries. Making aliyah is seen as a good zionist thing to do i.e. patriotic but it seems like the opposite of patriotism to rely on the generosity of a country (even one you regards as a homeland). Particularly one that is at war and needs the money!

I am an immigrant as well as a convert (which sometimes feel like being an immigrant). I can't imagine myself saying that I came to the UK to squeeze every pound out of the British state nor have i heard of any immigrant saying that.

I have never been on birthright or to jewish school so maybe i missed something about the point of aliyah. Even if it is supposed to be possible for every jewish person to return to israel, surely that isn't the same as making it possible for every jewish person to get money from the state of Israel (which is currently the case) and then leave when it is convenient and when they wish to? Surely its not ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country?

Shabbat shalom.

@literaryloveaffair your mention of Aish just reminded me of something. I saw a few videos of/by them and in both they sounded very Islamophobic, stating that Muslims worldwide are a threat, they intend to take over the world etc etc and that is a big driver to increase the Jewish population. Why is this? Surely if Judaism is not a proselytising religion, it should be quality they focus on rather than quantity. Are Aish considered a mainstream organisation or are they fundamentalists?

Edited to remove broken link

"Muslims intend to take over the world"

Sorry link in last post isn't working.

Have a lovely Shabbat all. Shalom

I would give you a very different answer compared to most orthodox jews as i am a Liberal Jew so not their target audience and don't agree with their political views! DH went to a chabad primary school, then regular jewish school and he went on several free trips with Aish. He didn't agree with them either but then he also became agnostic. He compares them with the evangelical christian movement in the USA (but for Jewish people only), but many people in the jewish community would disagree with that.

Aish aims to attract irreligious Jews who are not reform and want a more 'traditional interpretation of Judaism'. They host lots of free trips to Israel and and social activities for young jewish professionals (who may not otherwise have a community). in that sense, they are quite similar to chabad. DH's good friend who was otherwise not religious became very religious due to the lunch and learn sessions organized by Aish. My sister in law's boyfriend also fits the mould, he uses his phone on shabbat but loves chabad and aish and is very very pro israel (despite wanting to squeeze every shekel out of Israel).He also agrees with Geert wilders on muslims. I suppose if you have not been raised religious, nationalism is a lot more accessible, hence the more nationalistic bent of Aish

For this reason, most orthodox jews would agree that they are doing a good thing even if they don't agree with every single article that Aish churns out. I remember showing that 'reasons to make aliyah' article to my orthodox MIL and she didn't like it, called it manipulative but she said, well maybe they think if it encourages more young jewish people to come to the holy land, the ends justify the means even if they are not being completely transparent about the hard life that awaits young people in Israel if they come without a plan. She likes aish and agrees with their mission. So for that reasons, i suspect that when the orthodox jews on this thread read this after shabbat, they will probably say they like aish though i doubt they would agree with every article or video published by aish.

Ultimately like every religious organization, Aish aims to attract more followers and given their potential audience is a lot more right leaning (imagine the kind of people who read telegraph as opposed to guardian readers), it is not difficult to see why they would publish such videos. in contrast, most people I know in my liberal synagogue are guardian readers. My rabbi once gave a sermon on why we should let shamima begum back. I think it was rabbi rayner (who used to be the head rabbi at my synagogue) who said it was better to be few and right than many and wrong. That may be true but ultimately even if we are not a proselytising religion, we still need followers even if the followers are existing jewish people. given that left leaning people would probably be more attracted to reform, liberal or even masorti synagogues where LGBT people and interfaith couples are accepted, Aish has to go for more right wing people. tbh as mentioned before, some of the stuff that aish publishes would not look out of place in telegraph articles

@literaryloveaffair didn't you have your own post about this not too long ago?

I'm not orthodox but Aish definitely aren't mainstream 😳 The people I know who went to Aish events while at uni did so because they were poor students after a free meal or fancied one of the free trips. No one actually took them seriously 🙈 It was a bit like going to one of those timeshare talks in Florida to get free tickets to Disney world.

Same people I am talking about but this post is about aliyah incentives more than attitudes to Muslims. Orthodox Jews tend to make aliyah more often (I think) and possibly see aliyah very differently to me. I understand offering money and lots of incentives to Jewish people fleeing persecution and war like ethopians, but to western olim? Surely if Israel was in your heart you would make it happen even if the government didn't give you money and that shouldn't be a motivating factor. Furthermore if you were lucky enough to be born in the UK or USA or Europe surely it's not super difficult to save up the money to make a proper move or to gain the skills which would allow you to live well in Israel. I feel like most orthodox Jews have a different interpretation of zionism though!

You really don't seem to like your in laws a whole lot 🙈 Islamophobic and trying to squeeze money out of their host country.

I realise I'm not who you actually asked but I just wanted to point out that making aliyah would be unaffordable for almost everyone without financial assistance. Israel knows this so they help out, presumably because it pays off in the long run by people who move there adding more to the economy than they take.

I have siblings who have made aliyah. One left again after starting a family as it was all just too difficult financially, but by then they'd lived there 10ish years. Army service, paying taxes. The whole shebang! My other sibling is still there almost 20 years later. They'll never be able to get on the housing ladder though as it's too expensive in Israel - if they lived almost anywhere else in the world they'd be home owners by now 🙃 They're definitely not there for financial reasons - they're there because they love the country and they're enjoying being Jewish without having to remove their star of David necklace every time they leave the house.

Edited to add - sibling still in Israel has a very well-paying job. Still can't ever afford to go on holiday or save for a deposit.

@Humdingerydoo in terms of getting on the housing ladder are the struggles similar to for example the young generation in London?
Are there any help to buy schemes?

Yes I just had a bit of a look on their website and mainstream they aren't. Calling Muslims antisemites then claiming Islamophobia is a myth 🥴 They sound a bit like fundamental Christian groups who blame Moozlems for all of the world's problems.

Anyway a question for those who aren't orthodox. Do secular/atheist Jews still circumsize their sons? Do reform do it too?

Not sure about any help to buy schemes but if my sibling did the same job for the same salary in London, they'd be a homeowner. Obviously with a mortgage, but they could have a family, a house and live off the one salary. In Israel, they have two full time salaries and can barely afford rent and childcare. It's a hard life!

To be fair he isn't my dh's family, he is a boyfriend who would probably become family. I just found it all very perplexing cos being in London and around British Jewish people who are in general fairly cosmopolitan, I never meet people like that. But my SILs found their partners in Israel which I suppose is a melting pot of people from around the world! As well as different attitudes.

Yes fear of antisemitism is totally a good reason. And as an immigrant I do agree that immigration does add a lot to Israel. But at the same time I have also read that 75% of western olim leave Israel for all sorts of reasons (like the ones you mentioned above). And the top 20% of income earners in Israel pay 92% of taxes (so basically only the rich and upper middle class in Israel truly contribute to the tax coffers and they belong to fairly select professions as on the whole Israelis are not well paid). UK has the same problem but not quite as bad (for us it's top 20% pay 80% of taxes I think).

Is it beneficial to fund a lot of short stays economically speaking. Like your sibling, my SILs would also leave cos like you said aliyah money wouldn't fund the rest of your life in Israel.

The thing with our community is no one ever questions it. The consensus is moving to Israel = good. More money to support olim = good. I feel like in any other country no one would ever have this view even if they felt that the new people coming in were very beneficial to the country.

Far far worse than London. I bought a flat in NW London in 2019 with DH (in my 20s). If I sold my flat I would only manage to buy a 2 bed flat of the same size in bat yam which is near tel Aviv but the poorest city in central Israel. Most Israelis do not earn London incomes unless they work in high tech. In fact many earn less than they would in the UK. Even if you move further out it's still expensive. MY BIL was talking about moving to kiryat gat, which is basically in the desert. The train takes more than 50 minutes to tel Aviv and it stops at 7 pm or something insane. There is nothing to do there except chill with your friends. Rent is OK I suppose, around the equivalent of £750 a month. But when you look at buying its something like the equivalent of £300k which is a very good budget in most parts of the UK. When you factor in commute costs its not a cheap way to live at all. And there isn't much further out than kiryat gat unless you want daily rocket fire from hamas and hezbollah (and to be evacuated to a hotel) or to live in a settlement..

You need a 30% deposit too. Apparently you can bid for a discounted apartment but I suppose that is based on luck as its a lottery.

Yes to sweeping the floors, in England I used a ewbank for the carpet sometimes. we use tablecloths so the table stays clean, I change out the table cloth between meals or use a disposable plastic cloth and change that.
I wash up sometimes with cold water with a special non absorbent scrubber, because I don’t have enough crockery /glassware for multiple meals if we have guests.
post Shabbos if we had guests, cleaning the kitchen is a big job. I don’t mind washing up but I hate washing oily things . We work as a team so doesn’t take too long.

yes the ice cream is non dairy.

I’m extremely surprised by this. The assumption is if you are making Aliya you are going to have a hard time financially, and will be living more simply, wherever you come from. The benefits when you come help and are gratefully received, but the costs involved in coming are very high, and it took a lot of legwork in the months before and after. It’s hard to have a job at the beginning because you are dealing with a huge amount of bureaucracy, which require in person appointments, and take a long time, in Ivrit. Maybe it’s different coming as a single person than with a family. My husband found a job as quickly as he could, while I continued wfh. If finances were the reason to make Aliya , we’d have stayed in the UK.

The were many reasons we came, and I’m not denying anti semitism was the last ‘nudge’ we needed to take the plunge, but the biggest reason is this is home . My heart is here. We pray daily to return to Israel, and pray towards Jerusalem, and the temple, we sing at the end of the Passover Seder ‘next year in Jerusalem’. We mourn the destruction of the temples and our exile on Tishabav. Orthodox Jews consider living outside of Israel to be living in exile, there are mitzvot that can only be fulfilled in Israel.it’s been made painfully clear to Jews over the centuries that nowhere outside of Israel has ever been more than a temporary refuge for Jews.

One side of my family lived in Israel (tzfat/safed) for generations and generations long before the state of Israel was established, my great grandparents only came to the UK in I think the late 50s. Aliyah, returning home , has always been part of our (shared Jewish) and my family’s history.

I agree with you by the way “its not ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”

I am Chabad Chasidic. Which is a a bit more open to the internet.

My sons don't have smartphones and daughters had them but with filters on. (my daughter is 16 and got a smartphone only recently)

I use the internet all the time for work.

I don't know of any people who make aliya for the supposed financial benefits.

Aliya doens't work out for many people, language and job prospects being a big one.

Housing is a real issue, I have relatives who bought an apartment in a peripheral area of Israel and rent it out while they live in the centre of Israel where most of the jobs are.