I'm a Jewish Israeli, AMA

[israelilefty]

Jewish Israeli here. I grew up in a different country but have lived and worked most of my adult life here, living a fairly normal everyday life in northern Israel. When I'm not working, I enjoy cooking and hiking, I'm religiously observant (but also feminist), I'm on the left of the political spectrum, and have everyday contact with people from quite a range of different perspectives - Israeli society is incredibly diverse.

I guess I see us portrayed in a kind of monolithic way in the English-language media, so I'm taking a deep breath and posting here...

Feel free to AMA, just remember you're asking a real person, not a government or military spokesman :) I'll try to answer from my personal standpoint. as long as it's asked in good faith.

I'm talking about being bombed, etc. My parents have told me what it was like running out in their pyjamas to take refuge in the Anderson shelter, a family of four cowering in bunk beds in an area the size of a small campervan, listening to the sound of doodlebugs falling, wondering if they would be hit, and waking up in the morning to find neighbours' houses destroyed. For me, that shelter (dug up after the war) was just a sweet little corrugated iron garden shed, with roses growing over the door.

We literally went to war with Iraq because there was a real immediate danger of the super gun (or whatever they called it) bombing london. They invented it of course but that was the premise.

Can you see the difference between a hypothetical threat and a real one (e.g. 7 October and promises to repeat it until Israel is obliterated)?

The Iraq situation posed absolutely no immediate threat to you and your family.

Things would be different for you now if you were a Jewish family living in Israel.

Can you literally not see the difference, or do you just prefer to be dismissive of it?

sorry OP... I took the bait.

I will shut up and leave you to answer these apparently sincere questions.

Considering moderators are deleting the pressing questions, I don't believe this to be a truly open dialogue.

Your “pressing question” was goady and based on a false premise.

The shofar (ram's horn) is used during the prayers on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur (and the preceding month) but it's not a call to prayer - it's more of a form of reminder about the need to repent and of Divine mercy (reminding us that G-d sent Abraham a ram which he sacrificed instead of his son Isaac).

Hebrew was actually used continuously since Biblical times as a Jewish written language (eg rabbis wrote religious texts and letters to one another in Hebrew, there is beautiful poetry in Hebrew from the Spanish Golden Age, and Jews all over the place learned to read Hebrew in order to study religious texts). It was revived in the 19th century as an everyday language and words got added for modern things like electricity and umbrella.

Mainly Jewish religious practice is pretty much the same in Israel as it was in the Diaspora (you won't notice many differences in synagogue for example). Also to a large extent slightly different Diaspora prayer traditions still persist among communities in Israel, eg in my neighbourhood there is a Moroccan synagogue, a Yemenite one and a couple of European ones. But there is also some sharing of traditions. Everyone is keen to take part in the Moroccan Mimouna celebrations with special pancakes the night after Passover. Everyone knows the best melodies for holiday songs from the Syrian tradition.

Your question was about how I feel about having the right to immigrate to Israel when there are Palestinians whose families have lived here for hundreds of years who don't have equal civil rights (I saw it before it was removed, just didn't have time to answer right then). I did think it was phrased more as an accusation than a question, but since I offered AMA, I'll address it.

First of all, I'm grateful for the opportunity to immigrate to a place I can live safely as a Jew and have full rights as a citizen. I'm the 3rd consecutive generation of 1st-generation immigrants in my family (my grandmother immigrated to the country in which my mother was born, in fact that was the 2nd country she immigrated to; she met my grandfather there, who was also an immigrant but from another country; my mother immigrated to the country I was born in, and I immigrated to Israel). I probably don't have to tell you that not all those migrations were voluntary. I did choose to move to Israel but encountering antisemitism in my country of birth did factor into my decision.

I support the Law of Return in Israel because I support the right of the Jewish people to self-determination. This is particularly relevant after we suffered a genocide (by the way Armenia has a similar right to citizenship for similar reasons). Also as I've made abundantly clear in previous posts, I believe in equal rights for all citizens of the State of Israel including the rights of Palestinian Arab citizens in Israel as a national minority, and I have taken an active part in protesting discrimination within Israel and supporting organizations that address inequality.

As I've also pointed out many times, I support an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. They will get to determine their own criteria for citizenship (obviously Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship will remain Israeli citizens with full rights). Until such a state is established the best I can do is support its future creation.

Thank you Op - fully support you.

Thank you, this is been such an interesting AMA.

Has been, I meant to say.

Thank you for this OP. It's a very interesting thread. I am very glad you made it as the press don't paint a very balanced view of Israel at all over here. I lived in Israel many years ago, when Yitzhak Rabin was Prime Minister, so I guess I was lucky to live there in a such as time of peace and hope. I absolutely fell in love with Israel and found it a fascinating country with such a diverse society. I became somewhat obsessed with the history and politics of the region but I have not done a great job with keeping up in recent years.

I am not Jewish, but I totally agree with your viewpoints about Israel and how the only solution will be a 2 state one. Apologies if this has been asked and I have missed it.

Do you think 2 states will ever happen and what do you think it will need to make this a reality. And how would this work with Jerusalem being shared between Israel and Palestine? Would the old city belong to both? I always thought this was one big physical barrier to the more religious Israelis and Palestinians with the 2 state solution.

I wish I had a crystal ball... I don't know if or when it will happen. But I don't think that anyone could have predicted most big events in history. At the moment it seems distant but we are in a hugely unstable period (both locally and regionally) and nobody knows how the political scene will look in a year's time. I think that the three things needed for it to happen are some kind of big event that breaks the stalemate (are we living that event now? I don't know....), strong leadership on both sides, and overwhelming international pressure/support from both the West and the Arab world. In the meantime I think that the one thing we can do as civilians is invest in social infrastructure. Not concerts of Israeli and Palestinian kids playing classical music to liberal audiences who already believe in cooperation, because I think that gives a superficial picture of "peace". Rather, I personally think that the top priorities include economic development in the West Bank and Gaza; education including languages that would enable people to communicate; efforts on both sides to remove extremist language. I think a mistake made in the past has been to imagine that peace can only happen in a framework of Western liberal thought. Many more here are religious conservatives, but religious conservatives also have strong traditions of mutual respect and moral behaviour. We need to look outside the box for leadership.

Jerusalem is probably the most complex question for the 2-state solution but still, there are blueprints in the previous peace deals of how it can work. The Geneva Accords proposed two separate but coordinated municipalities in Jerusalem, which would be the capital of 2 states. The Old City of Jerusalem would be shared with each side controlling the access points within its own jurisdiction. I mention this not because this specific arrangement is the only option, but rather to say that there are concrete proposals of how to make it work.

sorry OP... I took the bait.

What bait? You’re the one baiting. I wish you’d give it a rest. This is an interesting thread and you’re derailing it with your squabbles.

Thank you OP for such a fascinating, thoughtful and well balanced thread. I hope peace comes for everyone as soon as it possibly can.

OP, you write brilliantly. Thanks for this thread.

Hi OP, I've enjoyed reading through your articulate and eloquent responses.
I'm a Jewish religious woman living here in the UK, I'm curious what your thoughts are on the Israeli yeshiva students who are exempt from army service because of their religious studies?

For those who don't know the context: in Israel all Jewish-Israeli citizens (and Arab citizens from certain population groups) are required to do compulsory military service at age 18, and to do reserve duty up to the age of 40 (or older for certain roles). Women also serve, though their service is shorter and generally involves less reserve duty. However, there is an exemption for ultra-Orthodox Israelis (for outsiders: the men who dress in black and white and wear black hats), whose men instead commit to study Jewish religious texts full time for a certain number of years. This exemption dates back to the early years of the state when a certain number of "genius" religious students were exempted from the draft in order not to interrupt their studies. However, this has expanded and now essentially applies to a whole sector of Israeli society. Modern Orthodox ("dati leumi") Israelis (men dress in regular clothes and wear a crocheted kippa) do serve in the army.

This is a huge social and political issue in Israel, and is even THE issue for many in elections. For secular and modern Orthodox Israelis, the situation seems absurd. Why should our kids have to go the army and others not? This is particularly acute right now: aside from the physical danger to soldiers, there's also the commitment required of reservists: hundreds of thousands of men have been doing compulsory reserve duty continuously from Oct 7. The age bracket of reservists mean that many, many women and young kids have barely seen their husbands/fathers during this time, not to mention the impact on businesses. Also, the army is seen as a huge factor in integration in Israeli society. It's where Israelis often meet young people from vastly different communities and backgrounds for the first time, and since there's universal conscription it's not exclusive like a university.

On the part of ultra-Orthodox Israelis, they genuinely believe that studying religious texts is as valuable and protective of the nation as doing military service. There is precedent for this in Jewish thought, where studying religious texts is seen as a religious activity more akin to, say, Christian prayer. However, as a modern religious Jew it's really hard for me to adopt this view, particularly because historically our sages and rabbis (the same ones whose words they are studying) had day jobs! Rabbi Akiva was a shepherd, Rambam was a doctor...

So: I am against the wholesale exemption of ultra-Orthodox Israelis from army service. No problem with individual exemption for really exceptional individuals - just as secular Israelis who are exceptional musicians or sportspeople get exempted or allowed to serve in a way that doesn't interrupt their training at this crucial age.

Obviously there are questions about how to implement this equality. The status quo is ingrained in Israeli politics. Because we have proportional representation, no party ever gains a majority, and most coalitions have needed ultra-Orthodox parties to join in order to form a government - and therefore the ruling parties have no choice but to agree to certain political demands of the ultra-Orthodox parties. This goes way beyond military service, and also involves education: most ultra-Orthodox boys get very little secular education and the only "respectable" option in society is religious study, which is a massive problem for those for whom a different career/path would be more suitable - as well as generally for the economy.

I believe in carrots, not sticks, and that change has to be made in partnership with communities and sensitivity to their values. I believe that the current situation of state-subsidised religious study for ultra-Orthodox Israelis and the lack of secular education for boys are unsustainable. I strongly believe that service to the community/nation is a good thing for young people, and we need to find ways to make national service seem a viable option for all Israelis (including Arab Israelis who don't serve in the army because of their conflicting identities as simultaneously both Palestinian and Israeli). Together with that, it doesn't need to mean military service for everyone. I also strongly believe that national civil service should be expanded so that young people from all communities who are less suited to military service can serve the community in other roles (currently religious women can choose civil service rather than military service, and some of those who are exempted from the army eg on medical grounds do national service).

Thanks again for the thread and answers @israelilefty 💐. @jewishorthomum please feel free to do a life in the UK as an orthodox jew AMA 🥰

Hi @istoodonlegoagain , if you check out classics, jewishorthomum did an AMA a few months ago if you’re interested :)

@jewishorthomum did exactly that a while back and it was brilliant 🙂

Jewish Orthodox mum AMA
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/4793436-jewish-orthodox-mum-ama

Jewish Orthodox Mum Part II AMA
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/4794247-jewish-orthodox-mum-part-ii-ama

@israelilefty thank you for this thread and being so articulate about such difficult topics. It means a lot to those of us living or with close family in Israel.

I believe in carrots, not sticks, and that change has to be made in partnership with communities and sensitivity to their values. I know you were talking about national service and changing how some sections of Israeli Jews are treated but I wonder if you took this way of thinking and applied it to the situation today in Gaza what ideas you could come up with because it’s a very different attitude than Netanyahu’s government is displaying.

In the context of the war I have seen there has been many fatalities of Israeli soldiers, many of them being very very young. If a soldier who was killed, was the breadwinner of the family, then would the state then take care to an extent of his/her family?
Is there a process for this? Or also If a soldier sustains a life changing injury

Thanks @EllaDisenchanted and @Shroedy will check that out 💐💐