Page 28 | Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything

AlphaTransWoman · 2023-10-14T21:25:19+00:00

Good evening, I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus building rather than the hostile, shouty kind of activism that gets us nowhere. I am here because I am genuinely interested in seeing if there is some kind of compromise that can be reached between pro trans and gender critical views. Obviously this is difficult because we may disagree about something pretty fundamental. I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense), so there's an obvious divide if you do not. The question is, can we find ways to co-exist and find an acceptable way forward on some of the difficult issues that arise around trans acceptance? So I'm happy to have a go answering anything you care to ask in good faith. Who knows, we might even make some progress.

CervixSampler · 17/10/2023 21:11

Did we scare him off with our rationality and such?

Original poster

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:11

HagoftheNorth · 17/10/2023 09:43

Let’s have a quick ‘reasonableness’ review;

OP believes that where possible TW should not be in women’s single-sex spaces or sports, and there should be 3rd spaces to support this.
However, OP dies believe that it’s better for TW to use women’s or disabled toilets where the only alternative is the men’s

OP does not want to share such space with obvious males, despite the lack of evidence that this is in any way dangerous, but even tho OP recognises they look obviously male, they still feel entitled to use the women’s toilets “if necessary” perhaps (early in the thread?) recognising that this might be disturbing for women 🤔

OP thinks that it is fine to assume that most women will share a set of personality traits. These include being less competitive, less rational, more emotional and more empathetic than most men. Women are also more concerned about their appearance, like to look pretty, and are less confident, and are less likely to want to take on a leadership role.

Women are also better suited to their societal ‘gender role’ - so that will be cleaning, cooking, domestic organisation and caring roles then. Notably, no roles which require the highest levels of education

ok, I thought I’d try to be reasonable, but it doesn’t look very reasonable to me. Have I been fair OP? If so, does it seem reasonable to you?

I think yes to most of this. And I do think my position is perfectly reasonable.

One point I would make is that the feminine traits I identified are valued in a huge variety of workplace roles, including very senior ones. The ability to collaborate and build effective relationships is vital in many fields. Also, while women may less often seek leadership roles, it turns out that a nurturing and inclusive approach often helps to build effective teams.

Having said this, I think society grossly undervalues certain roles that women are attracted to and often excel at. Caring would be an example of this.

OP posts:

Original poster

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:12

CervixSampler · 17/10/2023 21:11

Did we scare him off with our rationality and such?

No, I'm still here. My pronouns are she/her by the way.

OP posts:

Zzizzisnotzeproblem · 17/10/2023 21:15

I think it’s more that the women of MN are just not womanly enough to tickle that blouse/dress/irrational itch. Possibly because it’s not women that’s being aspired to it’s Betty Boop.

Original poster

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:17

WallaceinAnderland · 17/10/2023 14:33

OP doesn't display any of the traits he's designated as 'female' so not sure how that fits with his idea that his traits make him 'female'.

Anyway, OP is just one in a long, long, loooong parade of men who have come here to mansplain how they are 'womaning' and, although we patiently and repeatedly ask the same questions, we always get the same answers.

Not one of the many, many visitors to this site have been able to offer anything more than hair, clothes and makeup.

The only good thing that ever comes out of these threads is that their wives often end up getting the help and support they need to leave these types of relationships.

I'm disappointed you feel this way. All I have done is try to answer the questions put to me honestly. I always try to act in a way that I feel is appropriate for a woman.

OP posts:

fedupandstuck · 17/10/2023 21:19

Just stop it with the gross stereotypes about women. Gross in both senses of the word. Wanging on about how lovely and valuable these supposed qualities are is irrelevant. You are no feminist. You lack any awareness of patriarchal constructs that control and limit women, the history of those and why they are still in existence. You look at women as other, as differently human to men. It is offensive to women.

AFieldGuideToTrees · 17/10/2023 21:19

I always try to act in a way that I feel is appropriate for a woman.

🙄

Original poster

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:21

StarlightLime · 17/10/2023 08:46

But you claimed not wearing a dress would cause you to "detransition". So it's literally the clothes and stick on boobs that you imagine makes you female.
A woman costume, that you literally dress up in.

Show quote history

I think forcing any woman, including a trans woman, to wear masculine clothing is demeaning and wrong. Women should always be allowed to wear skirts or dresses if they choose to do so.

OP posts:

SirChenjins · 17/10/2023 21:23

I always try to act in a way that I feel is appropriate for a woman

You can’t act like a woman - we don’t act, we just are. It’s interesting that you always come back to your fixed ideas of what a woman is, as if by putting on a blouse and a set of breasts you suddenly become one. You won’t - you never will.

SirChenjins · 17/10/2023 21:24

Define ‘masculine clothing’?

AFieldGuideToTrees · 17/10/2023 21:26

fedupandstuck · 17/10/2023 21:19

Just stop it with the gross stereotypes about women. Gross in both senses of the word. Wanging on about how lovely and valuable these supposed qualities are is irrelevant. You are no feminist. You lack any awareness of patriarchal constructs that control and limit women, the history of those and why they are still in existence. You look at women as other, as differently human to men. It is offensive to women.

I've lost patience.

Do people really believe and have this world view about the nonsense he's coming out with.

Is he even for real?

He still never answered my question about safety in third spaces. 🧐

Original poster

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:31

fedupandstuck · 17/10/2023 21:19

Just stop it with the gross stereotypes about women. Gross in both senses of the word. Wanging on about how lovely and valuable these supposed qualities are is irrelevant. You are no feminist. You lack any awareness of patriarchal constructs that control and limit women, the history of those and why they are still in existence. You look at women as other, as differently human to men. It is offensive to women.

Again we come back to this strange idea that a belief in innate psychological differences between men and women is automatically offensive and implies that one (men) is somehow superior to the other. Why do you feel this way?

OP posts:

SirChenjins · 17/10/2023 21:34

If you read the second part of @fedupandstuck’s post the answer is staring you straight in the face.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 17/10/2023 21:39

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:11

I think yes to most of this. And I do think my position is perfectly reasonable.

One point I would make is that the feminine traits I identified are valued in a huge variety of workplace roles, including very senior ones. The ability to collaborate and build effective relationships is vital in many fields. Also, while women may less often seek leadership roles, it turns out that a nurturing and inclusive approach often helps to build effective teams.

Having said this, I think society grossly undervalues certain roles that women are attracted to and often excel at. Caring would be an example of this.

Show quote history

This is just beyond patronising.

You can wear as many dresses as you like, but nothing is going to knock the 'innate' sense of entitlement and inbuilt need for mansplaining out of you.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 17/10/2023 21:45

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:31

Again we come back to this strange idea that a belief in innate psychological differences between men and women is automatically offensive and implies that one (men) is somehow superior to the other. Why do you feel this way?

Show quote history

Why do we feel this way? Because we KNOW that the stereotypes you are so fond of, are restrictive, containing and toxic - women have fought free from them over decades, and now you want to send us straight back to the 1950s, just to support your fantasy of womanhood.

We are bloody angry that you think these stereotypes are in any way positive or helpful for women, or that you think a set of boobs, a dress and some make up makes you the expert on what women actually want, need and value.

Original poster

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:45

@RainbowZebraWarrior

So which bits of my statement do you disagree with? That women's skills are valuable in senior roles in the workplace or that carers are undervalued by society?

OP posts:

fedupandstuck · 17/10/2023 21:45

I repeat, you look at women as other, as differently human to men. It is offensive to women.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 17/10/2023 21:48

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:45

@RainbowZebraWarrior

So which bits of my statement do you disagree with? That women's skills are valuable in senior roles in the workplace or that carers are undervalued by society?

We disagree with your assertion that being caring is a solely female trait.

ChristmasKraken · 17/10/2023 21:50

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:45

@RainbowZebraWarrior

So which bits of my statement do you disagree with? That women's skills are valuable in senior roles in the workplace or that carers are undervalued by society?

"Women's skills" - what would they be then? The ability to look good in a skirt and grow a "set" of breasts? Put nail polish on without getting it on our fingers?

CervixSampler · 17/10/2023 21:52

No matter how many dresses, how much make up, how many false breasts, how many pairs of heels, how many head tilts, hair flicks, coy expressions, and declarations of being just like us, as soon as a man walks into a room, or opens his mouth and speaks, opens his eyes and looks, moves his hands to gesture or touch or write or type, a woman will know in an instant that he is not a woman and is in fact a man. We see them for exactly what they are and they hate that we will not be fooled.

SirChenjins · 17/10/2023 21:53

women's skills

What skills do all us women on here have as a collective that are specific to our sex?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 17/10/2023 21:54

Honestly, @AlphaTransWoman, if you had even the vaguest inkling of what it is actually like to be a woman, you would not be promoting toxic gender stereotypes at all. You would be listening to what people on this thread are telling you, and accepting that your opinion of womanhood is horribly outdated and out of step with what real women want and feel.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 17/10/2023 21:55

AlphaTransWoman · 17/10/2023 21:45

@RainbowZebraWarrior

So which bits of my statement do you disagree with? That women's skills are valuable in senior roles in the workplace or that carers are undervalued by society?

The fact that you need to repeat your view that women are often less likely to seek out management roles (apparently)

The fact that you need to tell us that women can in actually make great managers.

The fact that you say women are often attracted to roles like caring (you might as well have said 'menial')

Just all of it really. It genuinely comes across like you're on the wind up. So you either are, or you're tone deaf.

You remind me of a fellow manager I worked with in the Civil Service circa 1998.

Circumferences · 17/10/2023 21:56

This thread is just getting sexist-sick now.

OP has clearly never met a Yorkshire lass. Or clearly any actual women in real life.

CrunchyCarrot · 17/10/2023 21:59

I always try to act in a way that I feel is appropriate for a woman.

'Act' in a way you feel is 'appropriate' for a woman??? So you're trying to guess how women 'should' act in any given situation? Speaking as a biological woman I really don't have to think before I act in this way. Doesn't that tell you that you aren't really a woman at all?

Also re the 'third spaces' toilets - wouldn't that mean you'd have to share them with trans men and so according to your beliefs, a trans man IS a man, so wouldn't that be threatening for you?