Could you go fully plant based? U

[JC2021]

Any vegans/ strict vegetarians on here? Your views on climate change?

Any meat eaters ready to go green and move to a plant based diet for a better environmentally friendly planet?

Here you go. Maybe read the links you post.

In contrast to large intensive pig and poultry farms, industrial beef units do not require a government permit, and there are no official records held by DEFRA on how many intensive beef units are in operation.

@GetInThereLewis

So as a non vegan Derxa what do you suggest we do?

Gosh it isn't for me to dictate what you do. I have every respect for people who don't eat meat or animal products. Eat a whole food diet. Steer away from things that contain bloody palm oil. Eat local and seasonal. I'm no nutritional saint though. However what I would say is that you should respect the food you eat and the hard bloody effort that all kinds of farmers are putting in to feed people.

@GirlWithAGuitar

Here you go. Maybe read the links you post.

In contrast to large intensive pig and poultry farms, industrial beef units do not require a government permit, and there are no official records held by DEFRA on how many intensive beef units are in operation.

Well that should change then. Why don't you start a campaign?

It’s important to remember that even if you buy local meat some of those animals will have been fed eg soy feed. In those instances it’s better to eat the soy directly rather than it go via the cow into protein.
Would be good to have food labelling telling you if a cow is 100-% grass fed.

I’ve also noticed that if having a plant based meal it’s still cheaper to buy an organic tin of beans than cheap meat. So you can chose to buy organic protein sources so there is less impact on soil depletion.

Some people argue that although we can’t grow crops on much of our land it would be better for the planet to leave it to rewild as carbon sinks (the Lake District used to be nearly all trees) and import our food from other countries.

@JS87

I 100% agree they need better labelling! I also think a big part of this new green drive should be subsidies for grass fed meat and holistic & organic farming practices; not just for the farmers, but for consumers who buy the products making them the same price or cheaper than non environmentally friendly farms.

Legumes also super important as they fix nitrogen and reduce the need for artifical fertilisers; but they are not a fix all for soil depletion. Soil depletion happens when plough and the soil structures become disturbed and their is loss due to dust and run off. The only way to fix this is to add more organic material and periods of fallowing for stabilisation and recovery of the soils living habitants (bacterias, microrganisms, worms and insects which aerate for us).

Its like a whole ecosystem down there. And something I am very passionate about. It annoys me we are all focusing only on carbon emissions when we talk about 'green living'. We have only 60 years of topsoil left in the UK; 50 on average around the globe.

Non dairy milks, like oat milk must be fortified with calcium.

[quote stargirl1701]@Newgirls

Virtually all Scottish sheep are reared outdoors. The ewes are brought into sheds for lambing as it is safer. Generally, there is still snow on the ground at lambing. The rest of the year, they are on the hill!

Most Scottish beef cows are reared outside. They do spend the winter in a shed due to ground conditions. The only beef cows I see out all year round are Highland cattle. You can always see their delight when returned to pasture in the Spring.

[/quote]
Sure! But Scottish farming is a tiny part of food production in the UK.

@derxa

The issue isn’t soil. Most UK meat is raised in huge metal barns that cover any soil that was ever there. Do you mean chicken?

Yes chicken and pigs. Also some cows especially dairy production.

[quote daisymoo2]@newgirls It's a complete lie that only the very rich few eat high welfare beef and lamb. That's what butchers on high streets up and down the UK sell day in day out - and have seen a big upturn since Covid, not the reduction you (or many of the vegan activists claim). If more people were fortunate enough to spend time on the thousands of UK family farms they would have a much better appreciation of how different UK agriculture is to that portrayed by some sections of the media, which are mostly highly intensive low welfare ranch style farming in other parts of the world. On mass chicken production, I agree with you, I'd like to see less intensive production systems. It sounds like chicken production is your main issue. I'm not sure you are "very well informed about UK agriculture" if that's the only sector on which which you can comment. I really don't care if individuals choose a vegan diet for personal or allergy reasons but to peddle the myth that doing so will save the planet is plain dishonest.[/quote]
Does your ‘high welfare’ meat end up in burgers, ready meals, meatballs, sausages etc?

No. That is the majority of meat eaten in the UK. That beef and lamb is not high welfare meat.

I think farmers need to lobby other farmers. Clean up your own industry.

Sure! But Scottish farming is a tiny part of food production in the UK.
www.nfus.org.uk/farming-facts/what-we-produce.aspx

@Newgirls you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Where do you think butchers get the meat for their meatballs, sausages etc?

Why on earth do farmers need to lobby farmers? The problem isn’t farmers, it’s huge corporations who process the food, source it as cheaply as possible from wherever in the world they can (ignoring whether it’s produced to the same welfare or hygiene standards that are mandated to farmers in the UK). Do you honestly expect farmers to be able to change that? Do you have any idea how a sole trader business would do that?

If everyone made more conscious decisions about what they personally purchased and from where it would make a huge cumulative difference but it doesn’t suit the current rhetoric. Instead people will believe eating plant based processed meals from supermarkets leaves them ‘doing their bit for the environment’. Utter nonsense.

@Newgirls sitting here wondering if you’re expecting Derxa to volunteer to go and lobby Thailand chicken farmers to introduce the same welfare standards as are mandatory for UK farmers….are you actually serious that’s the solution? 🧐

Yes, I've eaten a mostly whole food plant based diet for some years now.

I avoid processed food so I try not to buy the quorn or fake-meat products. I make a major effort to eat locally and seasonally. I won't have almond milk for ethical reasons - intensively farmed products are inevitably bad for the environment. If a product isn't available in the UK, as some aren't, I try to ensure they are as local as possible e.g. soy from France not South America, although in fairness most of that goes to intensively farmed cattle in the US. I avoid products containing palm oil.

If I lived rurally I would consider eating pest species like rabbits, since eating vegetables means acknowledging some level of pest control. But I live in a major city so haven't felt the need to test that one out!

Cooking is my hobby and a real interest and I love it. I read recipe books for fun. But I spend hours each week meal planning, shopping, food prepping, batch cooking, and I am fortunate to be able to do so. Not everybody has the time, the energy, or frankly the interest.

[quote daisymoo2]@Newgirls you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Where do you think butchers get the meat for their meatballs, sausages etc?

Why on earth do farmers need to lobby farmers? The problem isn’t farmers, it’s huge corporations who process the food, source it as cheaply as possible from wherever in the world they can (ignoring whether it’s produced to the same welfare or hygiene standards that are mandated to farmers in the UK). Do you honestly expect farmers to be able to change that? Do you have any idea how a sole trader business would do that?

If everyone made more conscious decisions about what they personally purchased and from where it would make a huge cumulative difference but it doesn’t suit the current rhetoric. Instead people will believe eating plant based processed meals from supermarkets leaves them ‘doing their bit for the environment’. Utter nonsense.[/quote]
You seem very defensive about your industry. It needs to sort itself out. If you have time to go on vegan threads on social media perhaps go on farming groups and talk to them?

Most UK eaten chicken is not from Thailand. That’s borderline racist to be honest. The UK doesn’t always have high standards - sorry that’s spin.

@newgirls I don’t earn my living from the farming or the food sectors but I can’t abide propaganda based on one sided arguments being peddled as the truth. UK farming might not be perfect but it’s got higher standards than anywhere else in the world. Fact. (tell me where is higher if you disagree?)

Therefore, back to my original point. Don’t go vegan to save the planet. Shop local and seasonal and you’ll make a massive difference.

We are 90% vegetarian (BBQ and dinner at friends etc we eat meat). The meat and dairy we do buy is organic high welfare largely from the local farm shop. I would rather drive an electric car and install a heat pump/solar panels than have vegan cheese.

To me vegetarian/vegan is still a very middle class choice for example I picked up some Moroccan burgers for £2 for 2. I can get a bag of cheap beef burgers in Iceland for £4.50 for 10 which less than half the price per meal. Until the food industry stops selling cheap meat we aren't going to cut carbon emission. I heard about a £2 chicken the other day

[quote daisymoo2]@newgirls I don’t earn my living from the farming or the food sectors but I can’t abide propaganda based on one sided arguments being peddled as the truth. UK farming might not be perfect but it’s got higher standards than anywhere else in the world. Fact. (tell me where is higher if you disagree?)

Therefore, back to my original point. Don’t go vegan to save the planet. Shop local and seasonal and you’ll make a massive difference.[/quote]
How do people who live in cities ‘shop local’?

Where should burger takeouts, sandwich factories, chicken shops and Indian restaurants for example, shop?

The meat industry needs to change and we need to eat less of it.

@vickyc90

We are 90% vegetarian (BBQ and dinner at friends etc we eat meat). The meat and dairy we do buy is organic high welfare largely from the local farm shop. I would rather drive an electric car and install a heat pump/solar panels than have vegan cheese.

To me vegetarian/vegan is still a very middle class choice for example I picked up some Moroccan burgers for £2 for 2. I can get a bag of cheap beef burgers in Iceland for £4.50 for 10 which less than half the price per meal. Until the food industry stops selling cheap meat we aren't going to cut carbon emission. I heard about a £2 chicken the other day

Agree. There is a world of difference between cheap packs of burgers and Scottish grass fed beef. The meat industry is very good at blurring that distinction.

I saw a poster today on a bus shelter with a farmer in a field hugging a cow. You don’t see the abattoir worker doing a night shift on the side of a bus, do you. It’s all marketing

@Newgirls I’m getting really bored now. It’s not that hard. By local food I mean UK, not shipped from South America or China.

Same for restaurants and takeaways etc. They should do their diligence and understand the origins of what they’re buying. You and I should be asking where it comes from before we buy it.

Re ‘it’s all in the marketing’….why is this any different to a Shein poster marketing fast fashion. They don’t exactly market a picture of the factory floor in China, do they?

There is massive change needed to halt climate change but the UK farming sector is without question one of the solutions, not the problem. Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to see that. What about cutting single use plastic, using our bikes more, flying less, stopping the throw away culture when we want to change our clothes, redecorate our homes, fixing washing machines instead of buying a new one etc etc. Why is no one interested in any of this?

We are/I am interested in all those things but this particular thread is about vegan food.

I repeat 50% of our food is imported. City dwellers don’t get to ‘buy local’ or even all UK food. Burgers etc, as posted above, are not made from high welfare grass fed beef.

The UK meat industry is problematic. There is a range of approaches and standards within it, but the marketing boards and unions are as one.

If you are bored then I think you have run out of facts and new angles. Until the industry improves as a whole, I’m not sure what else there is to say on this.

Burgers etc, as posted above, are not made from high welfare grass fed beef. You're mixing up high welfare and more expensive cuts of meat. Burgers are not made of minced sirloin steak. Also the 'lamb' you get in curries may actually be mutton which comes from an older sheep.

I’m really not. Pls do read up on industrial farming and ‘cheap’ meat. We need to stop killing animals so casually for the sake of a cheap burger, kebab or sandwich.

@newgirls Just because city dwellers aren’t looking out their windows to farm animals doesn’t mean they can’t be responsible consumers. Buy from high street butchers, ask about point of origin, look for the red tractor in supermarkets, buy less with high food miles. If your stats are right and UK farming can only feed 50% of the population I find that a real concern. At any time civilised society is only three meals away from riots. We need to think about food security and threads like this, actively encouraging the public to choose imported soya, avocados and such like in order to follow a vegan diet is going to make it less and less viable for responsible UK farmers. Do we really want to further diminish our ability to feed ourselves and rely on imports? As I keep saying, what we really need is people to eat a diet that can be produced here in the UK.

I would love that too but there are far too many of us. We are very densely populated. 50% is correct and higher in the winter.

It’s why all the climate reports and recent food commissions say we have to go more plant based in the UK. We can’t feed the UK population on UK food alone at the moment. We should prob all start growing veg in o gardens and keeping chickens - but will we?!