Could you go fully plant based? U

[JC2021]

Any vegans/ strict vegetarians on here? Your views on climate change?

Any meat eaters ready to go green and move to a plant based diet for a better environmentally friendly planet?

@derxa

How many people in the UK do you feed with Scottish beef? 5% 10? 30%

30% of 60 million people? I can’t believe that sorry. There aren’t that many cows in Scotland!

@LemonSwan

I’m very well informed on UK agriculture. There is a lot of defensive spin from the meat and diary boards. And from meat eaters

You can call it spin all you like. And from an animal welfare perspective fair enough. From a carbon emission perspective slightly more debatable but still I will give you that for the sake of the argument because what I am concerned about is our soils.

What you need to grow your plant based diet is productive, healthy and fertile soil. Their are other ways to build soils ie. volcanic ash, and leaf litter in woodlands.

However in the UK we dont have volcanos, and goodluck growing your crops in our woodland because thats not really feasible.

As you are so informed can you please tell me how you will maintain and replenish our soils in the UK without the use of livestock?

The issue isn’t soil. Most UK meat is raised in huge metal barns that cover any soil that was ever there.

We have to get away from this fantasy that the Uk is pretty farms with apple trees and amazing practises. That is simply not where most of our food comes from. If it was we wouldn’t be in this mess.

[quote Bananablossom]@Newgirls
Quite, I think derxa is in a bit of a bubble.

I see people gorging on cheap, mass produced meat for almost every meal every day. Trolleys piled high with cheap slices of animals. Bits of bodies that lived brief, miserable lives, bought on special offer.

I've even had people panic at the thought of going just one meal without meat, it's astonishing how brainwashed some people are.

Hardly anyone I know buys high welfare meat and even they don't always buy it and never check when they eat out. And they're the ones who can afford to buy it.

Plenty of people are fed the line they absolutely need meat and can only afford the cheap stuff.

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores or herbivores. We all have a choice.[/quote]
Yes exactly.

I wish the farmers on here would come to London. Only the very rich few, eat high welfare meat. Not many farms in our cities.

I can’t believe the farmers here are happy with mass chicken production? Surely that goes against your principles.

@Newgirls

Virtually all Scottish sheep are reared outdoors. The ewes are brought into sheds for lambing as it is safer. Generally, there is still snow on the ground at lambing. The rest of the year, they are on the hill!

Most Scottish beef cows are reared outside. They do spend the winter in a shed due to ground conditions. The only beef cows I see out all year round are Highland cattle. You can always see their delight when returned to pasture in the Spring.

The issue isn’t soil. Most UK meat is raised in huge metal barns that cover any soil that was ever there. Do you mean chicken?

@hamstersarse

50 billion bees were killed in one single year (2018/19) just to produce oat milk

I fail to see how that saves the planet

Whaaat? Please tell me more about this. That's awful

[quote stargirl1701]@Newgirls

Virtually all Scottish sheep are reared outdoors. The ewes are brought into sheds for lambing as it is safer. Generally, there is still snow on the ground at lambing. The rest of the year, they are on the hill!

Most Scottish beef cows are reared outside. They do spend the winter in a shed due to ground conditions. The only beef cows I see out all year round are Highland cattle. You can always see their delight when returned to pasture in the Spring.

[/quote]
It's the same across the UK and Ireland. How do I know? I meet with sheep farmers from all across the country all the time. We meet at sales and shows. We belong to Breed Societies. We follow each other on Twitter etc. I've got 4 stock rams. Two came from Wales one of which I bought at auction, one is Irish and one is English. Is that a bubble?

@newgirls It's a complete lie that only the very rich few eat high welfare beef and lamb. That's what butchers on high streets up and down the UK sell day in day out - and have seen a big upturn since Covid, not the reduction you (or many of the vegan activists claim). If more people were fortunate enough to spend time on the thousands of UK family farms they would have a much better appreciation of how different UK agriculture is to that portrayed by some sections of the media, which are mostly highly intensive low welfare ranch style farming in other parts of the world. On mass chicken production, I agree with you, I'd like to see less intensive production systems. It sounds like chicken production is your main issue. I'm not sure you are "very well informed about UK agriculture" if that's the only sector on which which you can comment. I really don't care if individuals choose a vegan diet for personal or allergy reasons but to peddle the myth that doing so will save the planet is plain dishonest.

There’s plenty of Intensive beef farms in England unfortunately. Defra didn’t used to have to hold records of how many there were, I’m not sure if that’s still the case. It very much seems like the farming industry are trying to hide them but they exist unfortunately.

I really don't care if individuals choose a vegan diet for personal or allergy reasons but to peddle the myth that doing so will save the planet is plain dishonest.

Reducing meat consumption will help the planet. But regardless, there’s no cruelty free way to farm animals and that’s why most vegans are vegan, for the animals.

@GirlWithAGuitar

There’s plenty of Intensive beef farms in England unfortunately. Defra didn’t used to have to hold records of how many there were, I’m not sure if that’s still the case. It very much seems like the farming industry are trying to hide them but they exist unfortunately.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/29/revealed-industrial-scale-beef-farming-comes-to-the-uk Even the Guardian couldn't find 'plenty of intensive' beef farms in England.

Nearly a dozen that they found... and that’s from 2018. There’s even more now. Profit, profit, profit, that’s what matters.

We import 180.000 tons of chicken every year from Thailand. The earth cannot sustain these levels for much longer.

@GetInThereLewis that’s exactly why we need people to choose a low food miles, unprocessed diet, not a vegan diet (has anyone who eats those plant based meals actually read the ingredients list? Horrifying!)

I’m vegan and don’t eat horrifying ingredients. But there are ingredients people don’t have a clue about in non vegan diets too if you choose to eat crap.

As I said most vegans are vegans primarily for the animals.

China import most of their soya from the vast swathes of land they have bought in Argentina to feed their cows. It's not just vegan food that travels.

The opening questions were

“ Any vegans/ strict vegetarians on here? Your views on climate change?

Any meat eaters ready to go green and move to a plant based diet for a better environmentally friendly planet?”

I’d be interested to hear from some vegans who have made this choice. It’s pretty much been silence.

@GirlWithAGuitar

Nearly a dozen that they found... and that’s from 2018. There’s even more now. Profit, profit, profit, that’s what matters.

'There's even more now' Give me your evidence. It must be hard to make a profit since feeding animals concentrates is extremely expensive. It doesn't make any financial sense when the animals could be eating grass in spring, summer and autumn. The reason for the horrendous feed lots in the US is because they don't have the grassland we have here.

The issue isn’t soil.

And there shows how little you know about agriculture.

How do you think they grow crops?!?!?!???

There no government records kept on the numbers. But I know a lot of animal activists and there are more than a dozen now, at least double that number. Why do they exist if they’re not making money?

As I said most vegans are vegans primarily for the animals. But only certain animals. Not the animals whose habitats are destroyed for vast monocultures.

So as a non vegan Derxa what do you suggest we do?

There are no government records kept on the numbers. Really? Every year I have to submit all my stats to the Scottish Government. The exact number of animals and the exact use of every hectare of land on my farm. The same is true for English and Welsh farmers. I have an annual audit for standards for Quality Meat Scotland where the inspector to make sure welfare is high. The English farmers have their own scheme. Every beef animal has its own individual passport. The Government knows where every animal in the country is.

It states in your guardian article that defra do not have records of numbers of these intensive units. I don’t think that’s changed since the article was written.