Could you go fully plant based? U

[JC2021]

Any vegans/ strict vegetarians on here? Your views on climate change?

Any meat eaters ready to go green and move to a plant based diet for a better environmentally friendly planet?

I’m very well informed on UK agriculture. There is a lot of defensive spin from the meat and diary boards. And from meat eaters.

The ‘high welfare’ meat raising you are talking about is a very low % of the meat/fish being eaten in the UK. We import loads and use industrial farming that does not rely on beautiful fields etc. There are too many of us to live off the land in the ideal way you suggest.

Organic free range meat and eggs are not widely used in supermarket food, sandwich shops, chicken shops, takeaways, restaurants etc. That is a huge % of what the Uk eats.

Hodmedods is one example of how we can use Uk land for pulses etc.

The UK also has a labour shortage for slaughter and meat processing which means, at the moment, meat is being processed out of the UK. Even when raised here. It’s not a great system and all that transport is very bad for the planet

www.nfuonline.com/nfu-online/sectors/dairy/mythbuster-final/
You wont read this but the facts are contained in the above document.
My sheep are raised on grass. I can't afford to feed them on concentrates.

Ah yes, the National Farmers Union, the place for unbiased info on farming.

Derxa perhaps focus your energy on dealing with the dire intensive practises that do happen in the UK. I won’t insult you by calling it ‘farming’. There is a vast difference I imagine between what you do and most chicken ‘producers’ do.

Poor practice is far more damaging to your sales than vegans.

@newgirls You’re absolutely right that having food produced outside the UK and imported here is dreadful for the environment. It’s also worrying for food security. What people seem to forget is that the diet that is good for the environment here in the UK is what is bad for other parts of the world as they don’t have the pasture or water to support it. We absolutely can feed the UK population but it will be locally produced beef, lamb, root vegetables, dairy produce, grains. Basically the traditional western diet. It’s manufacturing synthetic food and importing non indigenous fruit and veg to the UK that has created the environmental problem. Going vegan solves nothing, despite what big business invested in plant based processing try to tell us.

@DuvetDog

Ah yes, the National Farmers Union, the place for unbiased info on farming.

There are 71 references to studies and data gatthering. Which ones do you refute? Have you read the article? I would happily welcome anyone on to my farm to see how they're treated. I respect vegans and vegetarians choice not to eat lamb because the animals are slaughtered to provide meat. However I will comment on ill informed and misleading posts.

I’m very well informed on UK agriculture. There is a lot of defensive spin from the meat and diary boards. And from meat eaters

You can call it spin all you like. And from an animal welfare perspective fair enough. From a carbon emission perspective slightly more debatable but still I will give you that for the sake of the argument because what I am concerned about is our soils.

What you need to grow your plant based diet is productive, healthy and fertile soil. Their are other ways to build soils ie. volcanic ash, and leaf litter in woodlands.

However in the UK we dont have volcanos, and goodluck growing your crops in our woodland because thats not really feasible.

As you are so informed can you please tell me how you will maintain and replenish our soils in the UK without the use of livestock?

[quote daisymoo2]@newgirls You’re absolutely right that having food produced outside the UK and imported here is dreadful for the environment. It’s also worrying for food security. What people seem to forget is that the diet that is good for the environment here in the UK is what is bad for other parts of the world as they don’t have the pasture or water to support it. We absolutely can feed the UK population but it will be locally produced beef, lamb, root vegetables, dairy produce, grains. Basically the traditional western diet. It’s manufacturing synthetic food and importing non indigenous fruit and veg to the UK that has created the environmental problem. Going vegan solves nothing, despite what big business invested in plant based processing try to tell us.[/quote]
Where do you place intensive factory farming in there? Mass chicken production?

We can grow pulses in the Uk and indeed used to grow far more eg carlins also know as black peas and the original mushy peas. They are very similar to chickpeas.

Farmers prefer meat as they can charge more. It’s not down to the land in this day and age sorry!

Poor practice is far more damaging to your sales than vegans. Meat sales went up during lockdown and lamb prices at auction have gone up dramatically last year and this one. People are getting fed up being told what to eat.

Derxa and Daisy - as you might see from my earlier posts I am not hardline on this. I did say if people just ate meat once a week and fish once or twice we prob wouldn’t be in this mess.

I think we need to get rid of the casual meat eating (packs of bits for lunches, chicken shops, chicken salads from supermarkets etc), burgers, ham etc

We don’t need it from a nutrition point of view and it’s where the low welfare tends to come in

We can grow pulses in the Uk and indeed used to grow far more eg carlins also know as black peas and the original mushy peas. They are very similar to chickpeas. Not here in the west of Scotland. it's far too wet.

@derxa

Poor practice is far more damaging to your sales than vegans. Meat sales went up during lockdown and lamb prices at auction have gone up dramatically last year and this one. People are getting fed up being told what to eat.

Not true. UK meat sales as a whole went down by 18%. Our buying patterns changed as we weren’t eating out obviously so you might want to check your figs.

Hence all the panicking meat producers!

@derxa

We can grow pulses in the Uk and indeed used to grow far more eg carlins also know as black peas and the original mushy peas. They are very similar to chickpeas. Not here in the west of Scotland. it's far too wet.

I actually have no issue with you raising cows in rainy Scotland. The bottom half of the Uk can grow almost anything now.

Most people don’t eat your high welfare meat.

Most people don’t eat your high welfare meat. Tell that to the people in my wee local town which has two butchers which sell local meat and the local restaurants which serve steaks from cows raised locally.
I'm a sheep farmer by the way not a cattle farmer. What do you think are the 'low welfare' practices carried out by beef and sheep farmers in the UK?

I’m more concerned about chicken and pig farming. Salmon too. I don’t like killing any animals personally but I understand others do.

@derxa

Most people don’t eat your high welfare meat. Tell that to the people in my wee local town which has two butchers which sell local meat and the local restaurants which serve steaks from cows raised locally. I'm a sheep farmer by the way not a cattle farmer. What do you think are the 'low welfare' practices carried out by beef and sheep farmers in the UK?

How many people in the UK do you feed with Scottish beef? 5% 10? Are you a fan of how the rest of the uK produce meat? Genuinely interested.

How many people in the UK do you feed with Scottish beef? 5% 10?
30%

@Newgirls
Quite, I think derxa is in a bit of a bubble.

I see people gorging on cheap, mass produced meat for almost every meal every day. Trolleys piled high with cheap slices of animals. Bits of bodies that lived brief, miserable lives, bought on special offer.

I've even had people panic at the thought of going just one meal without meat, it's astonishing how brainwashed some people are.

Hardly anyone I know buys high welfare meat and even they don't always buy it and never check when they eat out. And they're the ones who can afford to buy it.

Plenty of people are fed the line they absolutely need meat and can only afford the cheap stuff.

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores or herbivores. We all have a choice.

No. I couldn't. I'm happy to eat less meat but I try to follow the 100 mile diet. It would not be possible to stay healthy and eat no meat eating only what is grown in Scotland - particularly in the winter. I think I'd be left with kale and neeps, quite frankly. I try to buy from local farms as much as possible. Thankfully, in Perthshire we have a plethora of them!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The100-MileDiet

We do take a break every March. We eat tropical fruit & veg in that hungry gap.

It's not perfect but better than average. We don't need one person doing 'perfect'. We needs millions trying better.

Plant based can vary widely - not sure they're much climate saving going on eating imported fruit, veg and especially stuff like soy or palm oil!

NewGirls excellent posts.

@Newgirls Quite, I think derxa is in a bit of a bubble. In what sense?

In what sense?

Well if you read the post, she explains. You keep talking about high welfare meat when the poster explains that many people in the UK eat cheap crap with no thought for welfare either because they don’t care or can’t afford it. Your ‘wee local town’ isn’t representative of inner city Birmingham for example. So yes, you’re in a bubble.

@GirlWithAGuitar

In what sense?

Well if you read the post, she explains. You keep talking about high welfare meat when the poster explains that many people in the UK eat cheap crap with no thought for welfare either because they don’t care or can’t afford it. Your ‘wee local town’ isn’t representative of inner city Birmingham for example. So yes, you’re in a bubble.

If you buy beef and lamb produced in the UK then it's almost certainly 'high welfare'. What is low welfare British beef and lamb? Explain it to me.