I'm a born-again christian single parent - AMA

[midwifeinthemaking]

Just that really - would love to answer any questions, dispel myths etc.

If you look at it with God's eyes life is a blip--human trials and tribulations, as awful as they can be, end quickly. Eternity, which in heaven is wondrous in a way that "eyes have not seen and ears have not heard" is forever.

@AlexaShutUp - I should have said Evangelical Christianity because that’s what I have most experience with. I am sure the Pope is very well versed!

It’s this born again, “personal relationship” stuff. I find there is much less emphasis on understanding the scripture and much more emphasis on platitudes, reading the bible at a superficial level, and of course recruit, recruit, recruit. I am dismissive of born again Christians as they cause a lot of damage, they are cult like in their mentality, they target the vulnerable, a lot of money changes hands.

Mind you all I’ve said there can be applied to Catholicism just as easily. So yes I am dismissive of those who push their religion on others. I have no issue with religion and belief as a personal private practice.

@LifeExperience

If you look at it with God's eyes life is a blip--human trials and tribulations, as awful as they can be, end quickly. Eternity, which in heaven is wondrous in a way that "eyes have not seen and ears have not heard" is forever.

That's an interesting take on it.

God could do something about the baby dying at 1 but it happens so quickly on HIS timeline that it isn't worth it. Baby will die and then be in heaven so meh, it's fine. Even someone who dies painfully over several years, or starving over several decades on a developing country, it's just a few breathes in the scope of humanity and once they're finally dead, they'll be on heaven which is good forever. Or hell. One or the other.

But again that doesn't exactly fit the loving parent trope. I know DSs broken arm will only hurt for a short whilst but I'd still hug him, give him calpol, get it fixed because I don't want him to suffer more than necessary.

his concept might seem appealing for those who don’t like god or the idea of him, but what it really means is the total absence of everything god is too, which is: love, warmth, light, life, goodness, comfort, joy, peace, hope, kindness, grace, beauty, togetherness, fellowship (a funny word) but means being with those you love and who love you

This really pisses me off. The christian arrogance that their god is everything good about the world, and those without their god have none of those things. What absolute, insulting, horseshit! How dare you?

@Jellyfishnchips, there is so much addled thinking in your post, I don't even know where to begin.

If free will (which seems to equate in your mind to people making bad choices), why do young children get cancer, suffer and die?

What is your evidence for the notion that love, joy, and everything good comes only from God? How do you know that these are not generated and sustained by humans? What evidence do you have for this, other than that the bible tells you so?

You talk about making a decision or choice to be Christian. How does one make a choice to follow a religion when one doesn't actually believe it to be true? Are you recommending that people who fundamentally don't and can't believe in God or the other basic tenets of Christianity should lie and pretend that they do? For some of us, there is no choice to be made because we simply know in our hearts that it isn't true. What choice do you believe we have in that matter? How could we choose differently?

You talk about God as the ideal parent. Would you personally watch your child suffer terribly and choose not to intervene? If your child had made a wrong decision and subsequently wanted to reverse it - perhaps as a result of having made the initial decision on incomplete information - would you shrug your shoulders and say you've made your bed, now lie in it and suffer for eternity, or would you be glad to put them out of their misery? If people fail to make the "right" choice in this life and will therefore be punished for all eternity, is that because God is actually not that powerful and is therefore incapable of helping them, or is it because he is vengeful and wants to see them suffer for their "mistakes"?

To believe that non-believers automatically go to hell is also to believe that God is willing to consign the majority of creation to eternal damnation. Such a God would be a monster.

I agree, and in this respect, your version of Christianity is clearly more humane than some. But the God described in @Jellyfishnchips's post evidently is a monster, because people who fail to choose Christianity in this lifetime have clearly lost their chance.

I'm sure that there are Christians who have genuinely subjected their beliefs to proper scrutiny and made some kind of sense of it all that doesn't just rely on tautological arguments.

I'll try to put in my two pence. I grew up RC, left the church in my 20's, fed up with the medieval misogyny, and am now in a very progressive, liberal protestant denomination (The Episcopal Church).

For us, the OT is just historical preamble to the NT and provides context for the Jewish culture Jesus was born into. It's a fool's errand to try to read the Bible literally because it was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and there have been different versions of the NT books discovered that were written at different times. Usually, the earlier ones are considered more authentic. Some have plainly been messed with, like the bit about women should not be heard in church. That was in one version of that book, but not others.

There are also different levels of truth in the Bible. There are moral truths, like "Thou shalt not kill". There are symbolic truths, as when Jesus said "I am the vine". And there are truths that reflected the culture and time during which they were written but no longer apply, like the OT prohibition on eating shellfish. We have refrigeration now, so it's safe to eat shellfish. Ditto all of the OT rubbish about slavery.

So what's left? For me, it's the remarkable moral clarity of Jesus, who was inclusive of women in a way that was totally at odds with his culture, who extended his ministry to everyone, and who exhorted us to love one another as he loved us. He also said, "As you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, so you do to me."

He preached charity, love, compassion, and forgiveness. And his teaching gained followers to the extent that the Romans killed him. But they could not kill his ideas. And those ideas are still worth studying and help me to live a better life as a better person.

I am dismissive of those who push their religion on others. I have no issue with religion and belief as a personal private practice.

Yes, I tend to agree with this. I have never yet met anyone with a really deep understanding of their faith in all its complexities who also attempts to proselytise.

a personal relationship with god through Jesus. Just like a great friend. I chat to him on the bog or in the shower (sometimes the only quiet minutes I get as a mum of a toddler! Ok maybe not bog so much, but shower when husband takes a shift!) Like any relationship it has many facets, over time you discover new things, have questions and your understanding of the other person deepens. I laugh with him, cry with him, have got cross with him, sometimes been closer than close and other times more distant (due to me and my busy schedule really). He has reached in and rescued me many times, from the effects of abuse, throughout my whole life and even from literal death. I’ve found him to be not only loving, but the detail of his care and attention (I don’t think I could manage this with my own DC as I don’t have that much patience!). Also often overlooked is his sense of humour! God loves questions and is happy to answer

OK, @Jellyfishnchips, could explain what this remarkably cosy account actually means in more concrete terms?

I appreciate all the elements you put into this relationship, but what about the other person in this relationship? How do you discover new things about an invisible deity? Or is this code for 'I noticed something new in the Acts of the Apostles'? How does he happily answer questions? Again, is this code for 'an idea came into my head to which I choose to ascribe a divine inspiration'? How does this sense of humour and patience manifest itself? How about the hugs?

Assuming that you being saved from abuse involved either you saving yourself, or someone human intervening to save you, why credit that to God?

Because I was an unthinkingly devout child when I was abused and no one, divine or otherwise, saved me. It went on until the abuser died of old age. I'm fine about it now, mostly, but I can't help but wonder why your interventionist divine hugger wouldn't lift a finger to help a nine year old who prayed for help?

There's a very famous Catholic prayer which is part of the Rosary, a very important type of meditative prayer. It is repeated five times: "O My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy."

Does God do that? Of course I don't know. I hope so.

Thank you @MissConductUS. I can relate to your interpretation of Christianity much more easily, and I can see how it might provide comfort and guidance in your life.

May I ask how you make sense of the suffering in the world, and why God allows bad things to happen to good people? Does it somehow come back to the idea of free will again, and if so, what does that actually mean?

Also, may I ask where you stand with regard to other faiths? Is Christianity the only way to God in your view, or are there other ways that may be equally valid?

I wish I could believe, I really do. I used to, then I suffered from pregnancy losses and I also did something which I know is classed as a grave sin, and I lost my faith. I might be protecting myself and not allowing myself to believe now, because I have committed a sin that would send me to Hell. I'm doomed whetherI believe or not. I can't stand to think about what will happen when I die because it fills me with fear. I was brought up as a Catholic.

@AlexaShutUp

In the New Testament believers are given what is called the Great Commission. Jesus told his disciples to go into the world and "tell the good news" of salvation. He told them that if the people didn't accept it, they were to wipe the dust off their feet and move on.

Nowhere did he say pound people over the head with it, stand on a street corner and scream like a banshee about it, or tell people who didn't accept it that they were going to drown in a lake of fire. He said "tell."

My spiritual teachers and personal revelations through my walk with the Lord lead me to believe that Christians are to tell the good news primarily through the way they live their lives. We are to act, not just speak, act in such a way that people want to emulate us. St. Francis of Assisi said, "Preach the Gospel always. When necessary, use words."

IOW, for a Christian, preaching at people shouldn't be necessary if the example of Christ is being followed to the best of ability every day.

@AlexaShutUp

See I'd rather a Christian person say "God pit the world in motion but now doesn't interfere" than ops crap about how the non viable child was saved by prayer but the non viable baby in the next incubator does because God didn't bother saving him.

Yes, I know what you mean. It's easier to get your head around a god who is just hands off about everything, rather than one who makes capricious decisions about who he is going to allow to live and qho he is going to allow to suffer or die. Much better to say that he just doesn't get involved at that level, but then why do people bother praying about stuff like that? In the hope that he'll change his mind?

And saying that he just doesn't work in that way still doesn't address the issue of why not. I think I get stuck on the comparison to a loving parent. In my eyes, a loving parent allows their child to make choices and exercise their free will, but they also try to step in and avoid or alleviate suffering if their child is making the wrong choices. What kind of parent just sits back and says, oh dear, you fucked up, didn't you?

If you conceive of God as the creator, who doesn't get involved and just dispassionately watches what goes on, I can kind of understand that. It's when people start talking about a loving, compassionate God that it all starts to fall apart for me.

Except that this is demonstrably untrue. God intervenes in the world multiple times in the Bible, largely to bring about death and destruction to people he is displeased with.

So the position can't be 'my god has always been a hands-off creator.'
If the position is 'my god is now a hands-off creator,' then why did he choose to stop intervening?

P.S 'that was only the Old Testament; Jesus changes everything' isn't an explanation for this that stands up to scrutiny either. The existence of Jesus himself was an 'interference with creation' given he wasn't conceived naturally, according to a fundamental part of the Christian narrative.

@AlexaShutUp

Thank you *@MissConductUS*. I can relate to your interpretation of Christianity much more easily, and I can see how it might provide comfort and guidance in your life.

May I ask how you make sense of the suffering in the world, and why God allows bad things to happen to good people? Does it somehow come back to the idea of free will again, and if so, what does that actually mean?

Also, may I ask where you stand with regard to other faiths? Is Christianity the only way to God in your view, or are there other ways that may be equally valid?

I don't see God as actively intervening in everyday life. I think of Her as more of the prime mover who set the wheels in motion, gave us some instructions, and left what's going to happen up to us. I suppose that's free will. Angels (supposedly) cannot sin, but they also have no free will. I think that suffering and death are part of life.

I think that there are 6 billion ways to God. I once saw a cartoon of heaven that had gates labeled "Christian", "Hindu", "Buddist", etc. People queued up, walked through the gate they identified with, then all came into a common area. I rather liked that.

Some of these bigger questions I feel are beyond me, so I focus on what I do understand and try not to be too bothered too much by the parts I don't.

@LifeExperience, I respect that point of view re modelling a good life rather than preaching about it, and I have great admiration for those who live up to that ideal. Sadly, though, I think we all know far too many Christians who talk about their faith a lot but fail to reflect the teachings of that faith in their daily lives.

@Danutaisabully

I wish I could hug you right now and tell you there are NO unforgivable sins. None. Even premeditated murder is forgivable and God does forgive. Everything. Always. Please do not be afraid of God's wrath. God created you and loves you more than you can possibly know. The mercy that comes from that love is infinite, just like the love itself.

The most often repeated phrase in the Bible is "Fear not. " "Do not be afraid." Versions of that sentiment are throughout the New Testament. There is nothing to fear. Just the fact that you feel such regret and pain for what you did tells me that God has already forgiven you, because s(he) feels your pain and knows your regret.

God forgives and better yet, forgets. The Bible tells us that God takes our sin away from us "as far as the east is from the west" and will "remember your sin no more, forever."

Live your life with joy and have peace! I'm sorry you weren't exposed to a more loving, tolerant faith. I'm Catholic also and the fact that you were taught a bastardization of the faith instead of the true teachings angers me. That is the sin of those who should have taught you about Christ's love, but instead taught you fear. Fear is the opposite of faith, and has no place in our relationship with God.

I'm doomed whether I believe or not. I can't stand to think about what will happen when I die because it fills me with fear. I was brought up as a Catholic.

@Danutaisabully, I'm so sorry you feel like this. My mum was brought up as a Catholic and experiences a similar kind of guilt. It makes me feel both desperately sad and ragingly angry that you have been taught to feel like that. Please recognise, though, that it is human teachings that have made you feel that way. No loving God would impose that kind of suffering on his child.

@MissConductUS, thank you for answering. Your approach sounds very wise and reasonable. I find it interesting how Christianity has so many very different interpretations.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus asked this 2300 years ago

Epicurus asked this 2300 years ago

@Themsmedaps, I didn't know that. You learn something new every day!

Epicurus put it much more succinctly than I did!

If the question was asked 2300 years ago, I wonder if anyone has managed to answer it yet?!

I knew it would be a bloody Alpha course!!

You can keep your cult, thanks.

How do you feel about the stance of the evangelical church being pro conversion therapy when we know that not only does it not work but it causes serious harm to the people they ‘treat’?

[quote LifeExperience]@chinateapot

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. First, I am very sorry your child has cancer. There is nothing worse than having a sick child.

When God created the universe, necessary forces were put into play that exist today. One of those is genetics, and, as I understand it, most childhood cancers are related to genetic abnormalities. As we're finding out genetics is involved in the course of many if not most diseases. This doesn't mean that you caused your child's cancer in any way, any more than I or my husband caused our daughter's chronic serious illness, which we were told is the likely result of an interplay between genetic predisposition and a virus.

Did God indirectly cause it? Yes, at creation. Does he want your child or mine to have a serious illness? No. Does he love our children more than we do and grieve at their suffering? Yes.[/quote]
That’s rather in contrast to the OP’s assertion at 11.24 that it’s because we are ‘sinners’.

I have a hard time accepting that, for example, children get cancer because they are ‘sinners’.

Yes it's a tricky one isn't it. I've accepted that there are many things I won't get a worldly answer for (however many things to revert back to being because we are sinners). We are called to have a child-like faith. I'm sorry you're not finding answers, I can only suggest reading the Bible to see what it says.