I'm a born-again christian single parent - AMA

[midwifeinthemaking]

Just that really - would love to answer any questions, dispel myths etc.

@AlexaShutUp

God doesn't act as a magician, waving a wand and making this happen or that disappear. In the created world Gods acts through the creation. Human are the pinnacle of creation, so God most often acts through us. In the case of child with serious illnesses, through doctors, medical researchers, caring nurses, etc.

Is it a perfect system in human eyes? No, but I would rather have free will than be an automaton. Without free will we are not fully human.

@boymum9

I think you're on to something when you say that the media emphasizes the more outrageous aspects of some Christian religions. Everybody knows about the fire and brimstone sects, the cults, etc., while the good aspects of Christianity are often ignored. Crazy sells, so that is what is reported.

Sadly, some of this comes from professed Christians not living up to their call. Gandhi said that if all Christians acted like Jesus, everyone would be Christian. The fault in in human beings, not God.

Life Experience, sorry, but could you expand on your comment "Human are the pinnacle of creation, so God most often acts through us. In the case of child with serious illnesses, through doctors, medical researchers, caring nurses, etc."

I didn't want to quote just part of this make it appear a much more controversial / goady post, but if God acts... Why act in a manner where an innocent child dies? Why not,, if acting through humans, act and equip to treat and resolve this?

Sorry Life Experience, but if God created the system in the first place, why didn't he create a better one? One where children don't suffer immense pain and then die from cancer, for example?

Human are the pinnacle of creation, so God most often acts through us.
So @LifeExperience what happens when, as looks increasingly likely, we eradicate ourselves?

I would really like to see some of this "evidence" of God.

And what do you say to the science - of which there are concrete facts - of evolution?

@JoyOrbison @Danutaisabully @giletrouge

God acts through us in that he created us. God doesn't cause a certain researcher to have a eureka moment and come up with a covid vaccine while another doesn't. God doesn't move us around like chess pieces. S(he) created the world and set things in motion. S(he) doesn't make the tornado destroy this house and not that house.

We don't pray to get favors from Daddy or Mommy God. We pray to have a relationship with God. Relationships require communication, and prayer is that communication. Studying the Bible, as opposed to just reading it, is another means of communication and deepening our relationship with God.

As for the end of the world, we didn't create it and we can't destroy it, however much our egos tell us we have the power. We can obviously take ourselves out, but creation will endure. The end of that will come in God's time, not ours.

Not answered my question. Not even read it properly.

God doesn't act as a magician, waving a wand and making this happen or that disappear. In the created world Gods acts through the creation. Human are the pinnacle of creation, so God most often acts through us. In the case of child with serious illnesses, through doctors, medical researchers, caring nurses, etc.

I don't actually understand what you mean by any of this. It seems to me that it just sidesteps the question. It's obviously very clear that God is no magician, but that doesn't deal with the question of why. What I want to understand is whether he doesn't intervene because he can't (ie he lacks the power) or because he won't (ie he lacks the will). Logically, it must be one or the other, and merely saying that he doesn't intervene doesn't even begin to address the reasons for this.

Is it a perfect system in human eyes? No, but I would rather have free will than be an automaton. Without free will we are not fully human.

Again, I am struggling to understand what you understand when you talk about free will. Nobody has addressed the questions about this that I asked above. What do you understand free will to mean? Is it individual or collective?

Are we all branded sinners as a result of Eve's exercising of her free will to eat the apple (whether this is metaphorical or otherwise)? Is it a collective decision to turn away from God? In which case, how do any of us have any agency In that? We are simply being punished for the sins of our ancestors.

Or is this free will exercised on an individual basis? If so, how can it be that each and every one of us "chooses" to become a sinner? At what point do we make that choice? Does the fact that we all choose to sin mean that the state of being a sinner just an inevitable part of the human condition, the result of some inherent flaw in our beings? In which case, do we actually have any free will at all, because it seems that our decision to sin is pre-ordained? In what way can we be said to have made a choice?

Also, how can it possibly be free will if humans do not fully understand the consequences of the choices that they are making? Can an uninformed choice genuinely be a free one? I would argue not, and I wonder what kind of parent would put a set of choices in front of their child without ensuring that they fully understood the implications of each option.

Or perhaps people believe that the choice we make is not whether we sin or not, because that is inevitable, but rather whether we choose to put our faith in God, follow Jesus or whatever, but again, as I have already explained, faith is not actually a choice either. You can choose to pretend that you believe, but you cannot actually make yourself believe something when you don't think it's true. And according to the bible, lying is a sin...So if faith is a gift, rather than a choice, where are we able to exercise free will within this?

So please, tell me where is this free will that you speak of? And how does it explain or justify the presence of suffering in the world, because none of what has been said so far makes any sense to me at all. It all seems to be predicated on the presumption of an innate belief in God that we can somehow choose to turn away from or reject, but if that belief doesn't exist in the first place, then any notion of free will surely just evaporates.

Great to see other Christians here! I couldn't get by without God in my life *happy emoji**

[quote LifeExperience]@AlexaShutUp

God doesn't act as a magician, waving a wand and making this happen or that disappear. In the created world Gods acts through the creation. Human are the pinnacle of creation, so God most often acts through us. In the case of child with serious illnesses, through doctors, medical researchers, caring nurses, etc.

Is it a perfect system in human eyes? No, but I would rather have free will than be an automaton. Without free will we are not fully human.[/quote]
See I'd rather a Christian person say "God pit the world in motion but now doesn't interfere" than ops crap about how the non viable child was saved by prayer but the non viable baby in the next incubator does because God didn't bother saving him.

However if God is a hands off creator who does nothing else (it's not like all surgeons are Christians for example or that some patients don't die on the operating table so I assume you don't mean he's literally in the room with the guy with the scalpel) does your faith and prayer book down to gratitude for him creating the Earth and wanting to get into the Good Place?

See I'd rather a Christian person say "God pit the world in motion but now doesn't interfere" than ops crap about how the non viable child was saved by prayer but the non viable baby in the next incubator does because God didn't bother saving him.

Yes, I know what you mean. It's easier to get your head around a god who is just hands off about everything, rather than one who makes capricious decisions about who he is going to allow to live and qho he is going to allow to suffer or die. Much better to say that he just doesn't get involved at that level, but then why do people bother praying about stuff like that? In the hope that he'll change his mind?

And saying that he just doesn't work in that way still doesn't address the issue of why not. I think I get stuck on the comparison to a loving parent. In my eyes, a loving parent allows their child to make choices and exercise their free will, but they also try to step in and avoid or alleviate suffering if their child is making the wrong choices. What kind of parent just sits back and says, oh dear, you fucked up, didn't you?

If you conceive of God as the creator, who doesn't get involved and just dispassionately watches what goes on, I can kind of understand that. It's when people start talking about a loving, compassionate God that it all starts to fall apart for me.

And the free will etc.

Yes it was fr e will that I had sex to TTC but I was a consenting adult and married so no sin etc. Where exactly was the free will in making a baby with "too many" chromosomes and not enough diaphragm? Where was little overexcited zygotes freewill in getting over excited and making too many chromosomes? No one chooses to make a poorly baby, it's just chance. And my son didn't suffer for two years and live with the impacts of that for years more for a higher purpose or because of choices we made. It's literally a fluke.

So is god imperfect and hands off or does he just not care much?

My conclusion from this thread is that it's a fairly troubled world if there's no God.

but if there is, and he's doing what he does/not doing what he does not - then it's a truly evil world.

So I can now take comfort from knowing there is at least no big Abuser in the sky.

My conclusion from this thread is that it's really easy to spout platitudes, but it's really difficult to articulate in any detail what those platitudes really mean.

I always find this in discussions of this nature. There are a lot of words, but the substance appears to be lacking.

I’ve always been a bit envious of those that have such unshakeable faith. It must be incredibly comforting and I wish I had faith too. I just don’t see myself ever being able to believe in something so blindly. I wish I could! How exactly did you become a ‘born again Christian’. Is it something that developed over time? Was it some sort of revelation? I would love to hear about it. I know a few people from school who went from being pretty down and out to suddenly being heavy Christians almost overnight! How does it happen?

@AlexaShutUp - yes, it’s almost like it’s best to only have a superficial understanding of Christianity to believe.

Subscribing to a whole set of beliefs which encompass your entire life without scrutinising them first is not the same as becoming a parent. It’s more like becoming a parent and deciding the your child will be raised using the Gina Ford method before you’ve even finished reading the book. Other people criticise aspects of the method and you agree with it without even having read that chapter yet because you know it must be right.

I also don’t know everything in this worldly life. However, I am free to review evidence from all sides and come to my own conclusion on any topic. I could agree with right wing fanatics on one topic and liberals on another. You can’t do that. You have signed up to an organisation which will decide all of your opinions for you. You know they’ll have the correct answer before you’ve even heard the question.

@Myneighboursdomyheadin

Why is god doing such a shit job?

This would be my question too... And Religion causes so many wars and strife in the World. The answer is always “God gave us free will” But why should innocent children be murdered and mistreated? And suffer appalling illnesses. I am of the Stephen Fry camp when it comes to God and religion, sadly.

Do you acknowledge the different ways scripture has been interpreted by scholars over the years?
Saying “the Bible says....” is a subjective and sometimes dangerous thing!

The bible has been translated and redacted and put together in its current form by the church over the years, and there are many nuances in interpretations of specific contexts, words and phrases.

To the very sticky question of where do good people go when they die, I will say that the various Christian faiths differ widely on this.

I'm Catholic, so here is my fath's take on it. These are quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I'm shortening for brevity, but not changing the meaning at all:

Jews- (839)Theirs is "the sonship, glory, covenants, law, worship, promises and patriarchs and of their race, according to the flesh is Christ, for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

Muslims- (841) "...the plan pf salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham and together with us they adore the one, merciful Gpd, mankind's Judgement on the last day."

Non-Christian believers-(843) "...all goodness and truth found in these religions are a preparation for the Gospel."

Non-believers-(847) "Those who, through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ and...try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience, those too may achieve eternal salvation."

Readers of this section of the catechism come away with the idea that salvation is more difficult for those who have accepted the Gospel of Christ than for those who have not. We have the fullness of the Gospel and must atone for our shortcomings with grace throgh faith.

The Bible tells us that the precepts of God are written in the human heart. IOW, we all know right from wrong, and once we have attained the age of discernment we can choose to act in a godly manner even if we do not know or acknowledge God, and attain salvation in that way.

Short answer, yes, many, many Christians, including me, believe that non-believers can go to heaven.

Hi, an interesting chat OP and had a some thoughts just wanted to share. I am also a born-again Christian and my husband is too (previously atheist). Our faith doesn’t centre round going to church or church life, but a personal relationship with god through Jesus. Just like a great friend. I chat to him on the bog or in the shower (sometimes the only quiet minutes I get as a mum of a toddler! Ok maybe not bog so much, but shower when husband takes a shift!) Like any relationship it has many facets, over time you discover new things, have questions and your understanding of the other person deepens. I laugh with him, cry with him, have got cross with him, sometimes been closer than close and other times more distant (due to me and my busy schedule really). He has reached in and rescued me many times, from the effects of abuse, throughout my whole life and even from literal death. I’ve found him to be not only loving, but the detail of his care and attention (I don’t think I could manage this with my own DC as I don’t have that much patience!). Also often overlooked is his sense of humour! God loves questions and is happy to answer, I asked a million questions when I became Christian. For me what stands out the most is I discovered that he is the Ultimate parent, in all the ways I love my children it mirrors his own heart and more. His love is bigger than mine, his attention never in short supply or diverted, he is always available (I love my DC but struggle to always be available), quick to forgive, endlessly patient, compassionate, strong and protective, ever ready to help, loves giving good gifts, lovely hugs, and gives a deep deep sense of personal worth.

yes, it’s almost like it’s best to only have a superficial understanding of Christianity to believe.

@TitusPullo, yes, it does sometimes seem that way. I don't want to be dismissive, though, and I'm sure that there are Christians who have genuinely subjected their beliefs to proper scrutiny and made some kind of sense of it all that doesn't just rely on tautological arguments. I would love to hear from them, actually, and to understand how they interpret and explain these issues. It's interesting stuff, but frustrating when no answers are forthcoming.

That’s a very good question and worth answering. I think the reason it seems to many that god is doing a shit job is because people have free will and sadly people can (and do) use their will to be awful/ evil/destructive/murderous/abusive/hateful and exploitative to each other, themselves and the world around us. So what happens is the world ends up in a total mess, full of death, violence, misery and injustice. I think what the Christian faith offers is a way out of this terrible state, both personally and from the affects of sin in the world (which is equated to death in the bible). Hell is a confusing concept but put simply is a place of total absence of God. So if people chose to live their lives apart from him (and the salvation available through Jesus) an eternity without god is what follows afterwards. This concept might seem appealing for those who don’t like god or the idea of him, but what it really means is the total absence of everything god is too, which is: love, warmth, light, life, goodness, comfort, joy, peace, hope, kindness, grace, beauty, togetherness, fellowship (a funny word) but means being with those you love and who love you. He wants to save us from this, which is why he came, suffered and died in our place. As a parent he doesn’t want to be separated from his kids and offers us life instead. It all comes down to personal choice. I would argue it is the most important decision anyone can make, as decides where you will spend eternity. So it is up to each of us to chose one way or the other, but we cannot chose after we die, it has to be in this life (the bible is really clear on that). Perhaps we are too cynical of ‘free gifts’ in our society, but I heard it once said and rang true, is that while the gift of eternal life is free for us, it cost his son everything. We have no intention of pushing our faith on our kids, and don’t agree with this approach at all (who wants to be forced into a relationship??) but will instil the core values of love, forgiveness, kindness and helping others in the way we parent and encourage them that they are very loved and valued by us and god. Most of our family and friends are non-Christian and we love them wholeheartedly and respect their own beliefs and choices.

To believe that non-believers automatically go to hell is also to believe that God is willing to consign the majority of creation to eternal damnation. Such a God would be a monster.

The God I love walk with daily loves creation beyond measure and would never do such a thing. That doesn't means we won't have trials and tribulations. God makes no such promise anywhere in the Bible. In fact, our earthly trials are intended to make us seek answers to the bigger picture of our existence. If everything were always wonderful, we wouldn't question, we wouldn't seek. We are supposed to seek and question while we're here.