I’m a fairly secular Muslim: Ask me anything

[Byemelania]

I probably won’t know the answer but I’ll try

Yeah I'm interested in that too!

I did say yes op to most stuff including that other religious groups round here have rules around women and hair.

I mean globally obviously there is force in certain areas around modest dress etc of various extremes in Muslim countries

Certainly it must be the case there are women and older girls who are forced- I mean families do all sorts of shit. To say it never happens is impossible.

That wasn't the main thrust of my post though so I'm interested why that was picked up on.

I find the prescribed dress for women of other religious groups round here much more... Interesting than hijab which is just totally normal these days tbh.

I’ve definitely observed more girls in veils

Not particularly addressed to the UK but why are posters referring to "veils"? Isn't that a little disingenuous?

Agree more specificity on that would be useful.

Hi OP, I teach in a CE primary school with a large portion of pupils from Muslim families from all over the world. Occasionally, around Christian festivals such as Christmas or Easter, pupils from more devout or observant Muslim households sometimes give pupils from more secular Muslim homes a hard time for taking part in putting up Christmas decorations in the classroom, having an advent calendar or getting an Easter egg for instance. This sometimes also comes up around participating in singing in assembly or dancing. The secular pupils feel irritated or upset, and I usually suggest that there are different ways of interpreting religious doctrine and tradition, especially if children's families originate in different parts of the world. The more observant pupils have the strength of their convictions, though, and think I'm a bit of a fraud as a non-religious person. I wonder if you, as a child from a secular home, ever found yourself on the receiving end of religious comparison, and how you would have liked your teacher to advocate for you?

It's so interesting that there are groups other than Muslim around the place who have X way of modest dressing for women, Y rules about hair, Z numbers of fundamentalists doing stuff around the world....

They don't really get focused on so much though.

This happens across the board though surely?

Tell your kids the other kids are being wankers.
Talk to the teacher/ head.

No big deal?

I went to school with some fundamental Christians. They are all outside mainstream education now and I worry about the children tbh.

Anyway. Anyone who isn't one of them is evil... Was the thing.

And I went to a convent school FFS so sad hardly unaware of the whole Christian thing

My interjections are to point out that this is an issue across all the abrahamic religions afaik. And maybe the other ones too, got no experience of that.

I went to a convent school before i went to a school with the fundamental types, obviously.

Before anyone says. Eh?

Why don’t all white people denounce slavery? Colonialism? They might now and then but they get tetchy when the subject comes up - it wasn’t us! It was our ancestors. Well Muslims aren’t a monolith and a minority of lunatics aren’t worth our breath.

Being "white" is something you're born with and cannot change. Islam, for an adult in the West, is a choice

But I'm more interested in how you perceive slavery and colonialism, both historic and current

Is the history of Islamic expansion and the slavery/genocide brought in its wake - in the Indian subcontinent & north Africa - discussed much by you and your fellow Muslims or do you only see Europeans as being guilty of colonialism and slavery?

The problem is they [Hebdo cartoons] kind of take the piss on the victims of colonialism,...

In what way?

@DidoLamenting

I’ve definitely observed more girls in veils

Not particularly addressed to the UK but why are posters referring to "veils"? Isn't that a little disingenuous?

Goodness knows how autocucumber changed OP to UK

Are you from a country that is both religiously and culturally Islamic or only religiously?
(for example, Kosovo and Albania have a large % of Muslims but both countries are very westernised. Muslim people believe in the majority of the teachings but don't differentiate themselves from the Christians of the country)

@Nina9406 I’m from England. My ancestors are from a country that is both religiously and culturally Muslim.

@Flaxmeadow you and your fellow Muslims sounds offensive to me, but maybe I’m sensitive. And yes smart people are able to acknowledge the history of colonisation across all cultures. We are talking about European colonialism here, the consequences of which are relevant today.

@Lifeaintalwaysempty influence of religious bodies in the Gulf for instance on the rest of the Muslim world

@AdultHumanFemale my schools were v understanding but I was one minority - they were incredibly white Christian schools then but not CE. In primary school I was Mary at the nativity show, secretly jealous why I was never picked to be an angel (they we’re all blonde 😂). In secondary school, there were hymns at assembly. I didn’t sing them because it felt a bit odd to me and I also didn’t pray the Christian stuff.
I think a couple of times I could sense the hatred from some teachers when I questioned things in Religious Education classes, spoke about why Islam wasn’t being included while they were teaching about Christianity etc.
At home I always wanted a Christmas tree but my dad refused. I think it was his way of rebelling against something maybe, and also being in line with his own family who were more stricter culturally somehow.
As for what teachers can do, I think the fact you are even aware and concerned about this shows you are doing the right thing. You speak well of all the kids - both secular and more orthodox. I think the best teachers can do for children is treat them all equally.

@AdultHumanFemale because I was the only minority at school, I can’t comment on the situation your students are in. But my immediate family was looked down on by extended family for the way we did things (accusations of acting white etc) so maybe that’s similar. How, back then, would I have lied to have been advocated for? Just someone to stand by my side would have been enough, while explaining to the people upsetting me that there are more than one ways to skin a cat.

@Flaxmeadow sometimes it seems Hebdo is a bunch of Privileged white men and women shooting down at disadvantaged people, whose “flaws” are beyond their control because of a history of enslavement and persecution

OP, did you/have you come across any anti-Semitism among your Muslim family/friends/mosque? Or did they see Jews as similar to Muslims and facing many of the same hurdles re racism, battles over access to kosher/halal food etc?

Also, how was the Israeli/Palestinian conflict discussed?

Do you have any Jewish friends or family? Would they be accepted into your family?

I think ppl should read Phillipe Lancon's memoir before describing the victims and survivors of the CH massacre as 'privileged'.

This AMA belongs in the section for AMAs. OP, you can ask Mumsnet to move it.

Ah hello OP, I suspect you may be a similar ethnicity to me. My mothers family are muslim, my fathers family are sikh (I know!), I’m an athiest but my son and I follow some sikh traditions.

Curious if you get asked these ‘wonderful’ questions on a too regular basis.

“Are you allowed to carry a rucksack?”
“Oh, I was ignoring you because I thought you weren’t allowed to talk to women”
“Are you in ISIS?”
“Are you going to Syria?” (When I told a colleague I had booked a holiday).
“Have you seen Four Lions, its about your type”
“Why do Indians (i’m not even Indian) smell weird, you don’t smell weird, but most of them do?”
“Where are you really from?”
“How many wives do you have?” I had this one again recently, I was able to answer with “none, but I’ll have a husband soon” they did not know what to do so just sat in silence 🤣

OP, how has your family adapted to life in the U.K.? Do they have English friends or do they stick to socialising amongst their community?

Thank you for starting this thread Op. My best mate is Muslim and my biggest bugbear is when people asked her to condemn the whatever latest atrocity is. Not once in my life has anyone asked me to condemn some white man with a gun (and there are a lot of them) but whenever something happens with isis I feel sick to my stomach with worry for her because I know her next few days at work are going to be shit.

Also the thing about the Koran. there's plenty of things in the bible that don't sit right today either (offering daughters up for rape, fathers and daughters having sex to procreate). I don't know anything about the other religious books, but I'd bet there's something in them too.

I don't actually have any questions although I'll pop back later if I think of one, I just wanted to give a friendly wave 👋 and say hi!

@The8thMonth

Why don't more liberal Muslims publicly denounce the extreme beliefs and terrorism actions done in the name of Islam?

Watch this imam. He is so so upset and frustrated.

@xxyzz Jewish people are really similar to us in culture and identity, I have loads of Jewish friends. We agree on Palestine-Israel broad strokes, but there are differences / this is with everyone though, not just Jewish people.

@OutComeTheWolves hi! You sound like a great friend x