I’m a fairly secular Muslim: Ask me anything

[Byemelania]

I probably won’t know the answer but I’ll try

I'm curious about halal meat. Do you eat halal only? I'll admit I'm ignorant so reading your thread title reminded me it's something I've often wondered about. Is it cruel to animals? Why is it required?

@NiceGerbil boredom and avoiding doing the sensible thing and finishing my bit of work and sleeping while I can before bubba wakes up to be fed.

I had no expectations but was curious to what people want to know.

@Lochroy I eat it but I mostly buy organic meat from major supermarkets. I don’t think it’s any more cruel than all the other cruel ways of killing animals. We should all eat less meat probably, but it’s just so good sometimes isn’t it 🥩

@Luaanna thank you for highlighting the white privilege. No one (white) has ever apologised for any crimes, slavery, apartheid and ethnic cleansing in the past their country has ever committed to this day. We condemn any terrorism and act of violence because Islam is a peaceful religion and this affects us everyday Muslims because a couple of lunatics out of 1.9 billion Muslims worldwide, drags us and our religion through the mud where we have to constantly prove and explain ourselves which isn't fair. Recently, Mesut Ozil shared a post from the Koran which states " Whoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he killed the whole humankind, and whoever saves a life of a human being, it shall be as if he has saved the whole humankind". This was posted in response of the terror arrack in France. Mesut Ozil is a top footballer in Arsenal currently sitting on the bench because he also posted the ethnic cleansing of Uighurs in China and this post clearly pissed off the Chinese who work with Arsenal through TV rights and advertising. His career is literally over with any football team that has ties with China! A lot of Muslims stand against terrorism but of course this isn't portrayed in mainstream media.

I'm a secular Muslim but I tend to lie about my religious beliefs because whenever I say I'm a Muslim, I get harassed with bigotry questions.

@Byemelania do you tell people that you're a Muslim especially at work and what sort of reaction do you get? You said you live in London and I think London is a bit more tolerant towards everyone from different backgrounds and religious beliefs but even in London if we are getting 🤭sort of reaction, what hope do we have around the whole country and in any western country?

No one (white) has ever apologised for any crimes, slavery, apartheid and ethnic cleansing in the past their country has ever committed to this day.

What! Again? Read some fecking history.

@reallygrimouthere I’ve worked at my place so long they all know my background, but I wouldn’t tell people what my beliefs are easily. It’s not their business. Once we’re friends, and if they ask, I would tell them. Im Muslim culturally, spiritually? I dunno it’s confusing.. :)

@reallygrimouthere I guess it depends on who asks! Same with the where are you really from question.
What do you think?

@Escapeplanning

Not once has anyone ordered all white people to apologise for slavery, for apartheid, for ethnic cleansing.

Eh? You can't be serious?

Yes, that surprised given the proliferation of "I'm not speaking to white people any more" and its ilk.

What are your religious beliefs?

@Falleninwiththewrongcrowd do I believe in God you mean?

I understood from you describing yourself as "secular" that you don't subscribe strictly to Islamic teachings, but you have also referred to your religious beliefs, so I wondered what those were.

I think I believe in something greater than us, and since I was born into a religious culture then that’s the framework through which I kind of understand it. But like a lot of people, I’m not 100% sure I believe until things go really badly or really well, and I need to ask for something or give thanks. I know some Islamic prayers, I say them out of habit/hope?

Does holding that sort of belief create conflict with more devout believers or with non-believers?

@Falleninwiththewrongcrowd there are good and bad examples on both sides I think. In worst of both worlds the more orthodox people try and “convert” me and the atheists can be borderline offensive.

I’m Australian, we have formally apologised to our indigenous peoples, we have a national sorry day, to remember & commemorate the mistreatment of our country’s indigenous people. Our Prime Minister, in 2008 addressed the nation and spoke about injustices, pain & suffering, the stolen generation. I keenly felt this and was glad it happened. It doesn’t undo or make everything right, but it is a step in the right direction to admitting a problem exists. So to the PP who said this has never been done before, you are incorrect.

@zanahoria you’ve been mislead or haven’t looked into this properly. This may help you understand it a little more. The Muslims prophet has explicitly said ‘do not beat her’. The verse in the Quran has not been correctly translated, I often try and explain something to my husband (from my language) and it sometimes comes out harsher and incorrect. At the end of the day, I believe like all holy books, it’s open to your interpretation and I believe intelligence is needed too.

‘The Muslim prophet, Muhammad, set direct examples of these ideals of a marital relationship in his personal life. There is no clearer prophetic saying about a husband’s responsibility toward his wife than his response when asked:

‘Give her food when you take food, clothe her when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.’

But if Islam condemns all forms of violence against women, what about Verse 4:34 of the Qur’an? One translation of this verse reads:

‘Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband’s] absence what Allah would have them guard.

But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.’

The contention about Verse 4:34 is particular to its English translation. There are no accurate translations of this verse, which compounds the issue for English-speakers. There are three particular words – qawwamuna, nushuzahunna, and wadribuhunna – that appear in this verse and are often mistranslated, mainly due to a lack of equivalent words in English.

Particularly problematic is how the word wadribuhunna is translated into English. A clear disagreement exists among English-language Qur’an commentators on how best to translate this word. All translations give an explicit negative connotation, and – when read out of context – further exacerbates any misunderstanding.

No classical and contemporary Muslim scholar has ever argued that wadribuhunna actually means “beat” your wives, despite how English translations render the meaning.’

Interested from your perspective as to why you think wearing the veil has increased as time has gone on, particularly in non Muslim countries. My parents are from a Muslim country where the veil has never been as common as it is here, albeit becoming more so. And do you think all women are wearing by choice or is there some pressure whether conscious or unconscious. Also why is it becoming more common for girls to wear? As the veil is intended for modesty purposes for women (whether you think this is right or wrong) why would this apply to a child?

@Lifeaintalwaysempty where is the evidence it’s more prominent among girls? That’s not something I’ve observed.
I think two things are at play - the influence of religious bodies and the marginalisation of communities - the hijab is a symbol of resistance to some. Just my opinion.
I don’t think women are forced, I think that perspective is reductive. I think they choose, but there maybe other issues at play, of that makes sense.

'22:34zanahoria

the koran says it is OK for a man to beat his wife, why would any woman want to be in that religion'

The Bible says all sorts of shit. Tbf.

I struggle to see the differences between the flavours of the mainstream abramamic religions, people who are born into it and sort of go along with it for weddings etc... I mean it's all much of a muchness isn't it?

What am I missing?

Christians have stampeded round the world doing all sorts of shit back on the day. RC church makes women's lives difficult in many countries. Sectarianism- NI. I remember the IRA being active.

I feel I'm missing something on this thread about well. What it's about?

Some are forced to veil obviously though bye.

Even if we're just talking UK.

My understanding is that is cultural. With religion used as a reason.

I can also see it's a statement for younger people especially in a country that is increasingly racist. A fuck you. Teens are very good at that.

There is one Christian religious sect locally and one Jewish one where the women have unusual hair rules. This is not peculiar to Islam.

@Byemelania I’ve definitely observed more girls in veils, this was almost never seen even a decade ago. BBC Radio 4 did something on it, saying it was increasingly common, so not just my anecdotal evidence.
Interesting about symbol of resistance! Never thought of it like that. What you mean about religious bodies- influence of imams at mosque?

@NiceGerbil I honestly don’t know the prevalence of forced hijab wearers. In my whole life I haven’t met one, and I know At least hundreds of Muslim women who wear the hijab. That’s not denying it may happen, but I think the media overstates this

@Lifeaintalwaysempty by girls who do we mean exactly? By influence I mean powerful religious bodies in the international context.

I mean not having gone through puberty.

Who are the powerful religious bodies in an international context? Sounds mysterious!