I'm a gypsyologist AMA

[Devlesko]

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

[Saucery]

That’s so fascinating and informative, thank you!

[Elopelo]

This is a great thread and congratulations on your new granddaughter @Devlesko!

A few years ago I worked at a school where there was a large cohort of Roma students, majority of whom were born abroad and very recently arrived in the country. What I found lovely was that they all knew their history and could tell me that they were originally from India. I remember one occassion where a few students took a lot of pleasure in telling me some linguistic similarities as my family is originally from Pakistan so very similar langauge wise. Random list but I remember words like face, mouth, ear, socks, watermelon are exactly the same as how I would say them in Urdu/Punjabi. It was a moment I don't think I will ever forget!

Could you tell me more about the migration from India? When did this happen and why? I'm also really interested in religion and Roma people. Would the original migrants from India have been Hindu? And what's the current state of play today? Are there any links between Muslims and Roma?

Thanks in advance.

[KenDodd]

How do you know all this family history? Your knowledge seems to go back very far. I know we have official birth/marriage/death records and beyond that church records, is that how you did your research?

You told about I list of Roma professions a while back, any Roma MPs?

That you for the thread, it's a brilliant read.

[Devlesko]

KenDodd

I'm a bit of an anorak tbh, spend far too many hours doing this.
I just find it so fascinating how all the families fit together , with just enough help from the outside here and there.
Yes, originally all we had was a paper trail, records are really good, surprisingly as a pp noted too.
It can become difficult when some of them changed surnames because you have to play detective then.
The old genealogists recorded so much too, oral history passed down through the generations, too.
Can you believe the elders of my family know every gypsy family in England, most in Wales as well.
I'm in my 50's and won't when I'm their age.
DNA is amazing and has provided so many breakthroughs, especially the confirmed Indian markings. The problem is now you can have a DNA match that you have to place in several different family relationships, I'll say no more.

[tornadoalley]

I thought it said gynaecologist and was going to ask about endometriosis lol.

[Devlesko]

Elopelo

You tell that so well I can feel the joy you experienced. The language is a mix of so many different places and the Welsh had their own language spoken right up until the late 50's/ 60's.

I'm not sure about MP's tbh, they don't seem to like us, it's a shame that it all turned out like it did.
Post war saw the decline of freedom for Romany and I know it's strong but it's believed that Kent was socially cleansed and our way of life taken from us after that.
Youtube has some brilliant pathe news clips, some of them even make us go wtf. Check out Romany wedding on Yorkshire Moors

[Devlesko]

tornadoalley

I'm so sorry, it should come with a warning.
I didn't make the word up, somebody else did, a very long time ago.

[Stegasaurusmum]

This is fascinating.. I've just paid for ancestry DNA just because of this thread!
I'm pretty sure I'm bog standard English... Green eyes, pale, mousey hair... But my mums family, all very dark... I'd love to know. My dad's family were all in service, in Lancashire and kent.. Then before that, foundlings, left on the workhouse steps.
Are there any gypsy families with lighter colouring, or any history of girls from the families giving up their babies, or was that not a thing? I kind of imagine that it wouldn't be, that the families would rally round. I've always assumed that my great grandmother as a foundling was born out of wedlock.

[Devlesko]

Yes there are blond Romany. I get as many ancestry matches from paler hair and skin tone as I do dark and olive, honestly it's a right mixed bag.
Babies were given up but it was usually for a very good reason and quite rare.
It was the opposite before adoption and ss if a woman needed to hide a child, perhaps related she'd give it to the gypsies. Your foundlings could just as easily have been left with a gypsy family.
Some believe this is where the saying gypsies will steal your children" comes from.
Can you remember the little gypsy girl taken from her family because it had been reported she was a victim of kidnap?

I wish you well with your research, there's a board on here, don't know how busy it gets.

[Devlesko]

I promised something about education.

Well, as I posted earlier about leaving school at 14 that was common for mine and my parents generation. They were secondary modern, and me comp.
We have come so far, just like the rest of society. Although it's still very popular for sahm's moreso than non travellers.
But women are taking opportunities to stay on at school and go to uni, the first generations are emerging now.
Where it differs is you obviously marry the man who fits your idea of a future. I think the rest of society could learn something from this.
So if you want to be travelling the world as an executive, you don't marry paving sam and then moan about your lot.
So, the traditionalists children leave school before secondary now. A cousin has secondary age children at home, as do many others but I'm very close to her. I hope that she does right by them, I know she's paying a tutor for maths and English which is a step in the right direction. They'll either do an apprenticeship/ course through a college.
So, it varies quite a bit, just like the rest of society.

[Devlesko]

Paving sam is a good honest man who provides well for his wife and children.
They live in a council house or private estate, he drives a van, she keeps the house and family immaculate.
Not my life choice but they are lovely law abiding citizens.

[Mumthedogsbeensick]

@teacake89

Thanks *@Devlesko I know my gg grandfathers name was Tenant and he married a Smith. Df has had his ancestry DNA done and got in touch with a lot of distant relations that way. @Itwasaquarterpast11* that museum sounds really awesome!

Sorry to hijack the thread but we have a Tenant who married a Smith in our family. They're not from the Wigton area of Cumbria are they?

[Hopefully67]

Great thread

[teacake89]

Hi @mumthedogsbeensick from what I can see the Tenant in my line was born in Devon, travelled a bit around Birmingham, Staffordshire and the West Midlands, before dying in Staffordshire in 1929. I believe Tenant was a pretty common Buckland family name though.

[Mimishimi]

Post war saw the decline of freedom for Romany

That's because a lot of the perpetrators moved to Western countries. We got really scared actually.

[FranklyImCringeing]

Taking about blond hair, the sons of the Loveridge family who lived near us had blonde wavy hair. Just before we moved to the area, a young girl in the family sadly died. I remember being told about the funeral, apparently it was incredible. Hundreds of people came from all over to mourn.

[sashh]

How do you feel about holocaust remembrance day? Do you feel Gypsies are remembered?

[Devlesko]

mimishimi

I don't understand, how do you mean? Please explain.
I was referring to how Romany were treated in the UK, post war.
Policy makers have never really been on our side, Romany were always seen as a problem.
Even now priti Patel is changing laws to make it even harder for us, not just to travel but to keep our culture.
No way can we travel with extended family now and there's nowhere to stop, not enough sites.
We have to fight to keep the existing ones open.

Holocaust remembrance day.
No, I don't feel that gypsies are remembered, but that's down to education imo. People are so surprised when I tell them, and I can understand why Jews are mentioned foremost, especially with so many deniers out there. That must be tough, so I don't complain.
When I've mentioned it to children I always add all the other groups that were affected like disabled, gay, etc.
But yes, in general I think there should be more ito education in schools. I don't think a huge amount of time should be devoted to it, but some schools I visit fit it into PHSE or equivalent, depending on what topic I'm presenting/ performing.

[Viviennemary]

Do you have second sight. Is it inherited or can you get it through practice.

[Devlesko]

Frankly

We take it in turns watching over the body until the funeral, all night vigils. Children too, although mine have never wanted to follow this part of the culture.
Yes, if you are a Romany family you are considered as one big happy family and even relations you never see, you'll meet them at funerals.
Family occasions are huge events, it's seen as a type of duty, which Romany are famous for.

[Devlesko]

Viviennemary

I love you

I do think I have a second sight, but only because my family tell me.
If there's a reader in your family as a girl you are encouraged but not expected to learn the ways.

Romany are no more psychic than anyone else, and personally I don't think people can speak to spirits.

We have Mumsnet, and in years gone by Claire Rainer and magazines.
There has always been somewhere you can find an agony aunt.

My female ancestors knew exactly what women were going to want to hear and in fairness they were very good counsellors because they practised so much.
A bit like the same threads that come up time and time again on here.
You don't need to be a psychotherapist to advise.
That's how it all started, yes bits were added for elaboration, and i do believe that some people possess a heightened awareness of intuition or sensitivity, but I don't think this is confined to Romany.

[Tangledtresses]

Ooh after reading through this... I'm trying to find our old family tree, I do remember on my dads side

There were a lot surnames 'White' who lived in the new forest, Dorset wayyy back and seemed to move away poissbly during the1st world war.

I wonder if they were Romanys?

[hoping4onlychild]

@Devlesko I think a big part of that is that the crimes against the Roma were never prosecuted during the Nuremberg Trials. In Germany, official recognition of the Roma genocide did not come until 1982. It was not until 2011 that the European Union followed suit.

[TheFnozwhowasmirage]

Devlesko your ancestors,Wissy Smith was an inspiration to John Clare,the famous poet. He talks about visiting Wisdom and hearing him play his latest tunes and songs.
To the previous poster,who asked about Biddles,we have Biddle in our family tree too,so quite possibly Romany.
I do like the feeling of being connected to a whole network of people around the country,whom I've never met.

[Devlesko]

Tangled

White is a Romany name, but they came from Cooper, or Cooper took the name.
I learned this because my line of Cooper suddenly became white.

I know that no prosecutions were made during the Nuremberg Trials, absolutely disgusting, but typical of the usual treatment.

The Fnoz
We are a very inspiring lot There are quite a few creative gypsies in my family.

I've always known about this, but never found anything as pretty and well put together, so these are some of my ancestors and my direct maternal line. Hope you enjoy, I was beside myself when I found this.

georgianera.wordpress.com/2016/12/06/princess-victoria-and-the-gypsies-part-1/
georgianera.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/princess-victoria-and-the-gypsies-part-2/