I'm a gypsyologist AMA

[Devlesko]

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

[Devlesko]

Saucery

I'll post what I can, I've files of stuff collected over many years and I'm not very good at systems. Dh gave me a MacBook, and I'm useless.
Family think it's because I'm old and out of touch, cheeky beggars.
I'm fine with links, it's documents and pages.
The end of my litle rant.

I didn't respond to a post upthread and now another.
Gypsiology Gypsiologist?
I'm certain it's a made up name, but it sort of labels what the studies are about.
But, definitely a sociology aspect to it, along with history, science, language, culture, religion, politics etc.

[Devlesko]

nancy

Not a name I have come across, but lots of travelling entertainers were other ethnicities as well as Romany.
There was the odd gypsy travelling circus/ fair but they were mainly non Romany.

louty

When you said nothing showed up, did you mean no Asian.
I'm asking as it isn't always in your DNA. My middle dc hasn't any and neither have a couple of cousins.
Depending on your age too, and your generation, it does die out eventually.
I have around 10% Asian and Persian, quite high for my gen (50's) but I have a line with high endogamy. The less attractive unromantic bits.

[Devlesko]

This might be interesting, but maybe a bit heavy for some.

[Devlesko]

Arghhhhh , my doc went. It said choose file, the pdf name was next to the box but it didn't post.

[Devlesko]

nancy

Will ask on a fb group, I don't know all the names.
He could be Eastern European? That would be interesting.

[CodenameVillanelle]

I've read online from US activists that gypsy is a racial slur. It's not generally viewed that way here - what do you think about that?

[nancy75]

Thank you x

[CodenameVillanelle]

@CodenameVillanelle

I've read online from US activists that gypsy is a racial slur. It's not generally viewed that way here - what do you think about that?

Sorry I see you have already answered that!

[Devlesko]

Nancy

A friend has noted previously that your name is linked to a Boswell Gypsy King.
She only has lists of names and doesn't have more info, I'm not even sure which Boswell line, but could be married in, or even Romany from Eastern Europe.
There again could be a British Romany family married in.
You could look around Kent or Berkshire areas. Another area to look would be Staffordshire.

[AuntMasha]

Thank you, Devlesko, this is a really interesting thread to me because I’ve always been interested in the Romany culture. The Romanis were the first people I encountered of a different culture to mine. When I was a child, Romanis travelled more than today and I remember them coming to the village I grew up in. The women would go door to door selling lace and other items from their baskets. My mum told me about how throughout history the Rom were badly treated by settled people and that they were persecuted in the holocaust (or the ‘Porajmos’ which I believe means ‘the devouring’). So I grew up respecting the people. I live in a part of the U.K. where we have one of the highest populations of Rom and Irish Travellers and I think the frankly appalling prejudice in the non-traveller population is a sorry reflection of our often, wilful ignorance.

[nancy75]

@Devlesko

Nancy

A friend has noted previously that your name is linked to a Boswell Gypsy King.
She only has lists of names and doesn't have more info, I'm not even sure which Boswell line, but could be married in, or even Romany from Eastern Europe.
There again could be a British Romany family married in.
You could look around Kent or Berkshire areas. Another area to look would be Staffordshire.

Thank you so much for asking for me!
My whole life I’ve been asked where are you from? due to being so dark Skinned/black hair (the whole family has it) and in the last few years I’ve really wondered where it comes from. Due to my dads family being zero contact I‘Ve never been able to ask older family members if they know anything about why we look the way we do, I’m certainly going to do some more digging!

[TheFnozwhowasmirage]

How interesting Devlesko. I'm descended from Absolom Smith,and have Sheriff,Buckley,Wood, Boswell,Clayton/Claydon connections. We had no idea until my mum did our family tree,and it turned out that both her family and my dad's family are from Romany backgrounds. A lot of things made sense after that. I never met my maternal grandad, but apparently he was very dark,and was often asked if he was Indian. Considering Romanies have an oral rather than written tradition,it is surprisingly easy to trace our ancestors.

[Devlesko]

Wow, that is a rich heritage. I totally agree with you regarding the ease of finding them. My Welsh side I can go right back to 1500, but some of my Smiths 3 generations then brick wall.
The best description for darker gypsies imo is swarthy. You are that colour when out in the sun.
When I was young my skin was snowy white and my hair jet black with a bluey tint. I went darker in the summer, but now I'm tanned most of the year but it does fade a bit. Finding the right foundation colour can be difficult.
Your Smith line goes right back to one of the main lines, but much harder going far back.
Mine are Jasper son of Thomas Smith, down to Wisdom (wissy)

[Bellamybells]

You mentioned the romantic notion of 'gypsy' - Boho trousers, reading tealeaves and things. Does this come from anywhere?

[Terralee]

@Devlesko one of my Aunties is an Oxford from Dorset / Hampshire, she is Romany.

Also it's rumoured one of my great grandmothers was Romany, her birth name was Annie Elizabeth Ingram possibly from Southampton.
She would've been born approx 1880s.
She had olive skin with long curly black hair that stayed black until she died in her late 80s. Quite a few of my family resemble her looks.

It's difficult to find out anything as I don't have a date or definite place of birth.
If she wasn't Romany I wonder what her background was... but I may never find out.

I went to school with lots of children from settled Romany / Irish Traveller backgrounds, & have kept in touch with some of them.
There were some well known families & a local Romany dialect. The families include the Lights, Lambs, Turners, Coopers, Kellys, McNallys, McNultys...

[Devlesko]

Terralee

I recognise all those names Turners and Coopers are very old families.
Ingram is a big family from wales.
You'll find them on the link I posted upthread, for Welsh Lees. Just find the homepage and there's lists of names.
They married into Prices which is another big name, going back to 16th 17th century.

[Devlesko]

Oh yes, the romanticism portrayed by popular culture isn't appreciated by many.
Esmeralda was real, and the she is far more ahem colourful than depicted anywhere.
It does seem to be more American activists arguing against this, but I agree with them 100%.
I see many examples on social media, links to websites of people posing with a gypsy vardo with flowing western idealised gypsy related garments, so far removed from reality. With slogans of "find your gypsy spirit" "the gypsy in you" What's all that about? Stereotypical nonsense that teaches society nothing.
Apologies.
Once again not really considered much in this country, but 100% would agree, if asked.

[Devlesko]

Homework:

Google Esmerelda, bit of a rumman in her time.

[Itwasaquarterpast11]

Will do :)
Following with great interest. GGF was a Boswell, he worked with horses and went where the races were. His sisters were fortune tellers and used to travel to London regularly to read for Queen Mary, it must have been in the 1930s, as my GM recalled them visiting when passing and bringing her the most beautiful dresses to wear.

[Mimishimi]

I'm Irish and Scots traveller. A Wells. We have not got a drop of Romany I think (because it shows up as South Asian). We only have 2% Scandinavian.

To be honest, it's all a bit scary at the moment....

[teacake89]

@Devlesko Congratulations on becoming a granny again! I was wondering if you could reccomend any books to give an insight into Romany culture?
Also, as I mentioned before, my ggrandmother was a Buckland - she also had a Hoadley & Furminger in her line. Do you know of them?
My ggrandfather's family was Mills from the Cornwall area - are you familiar with them? Then further back there is a Naomi Jeff / Bland / Burden. She kept changing her surname in different census records. Would there be a reason for that?
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I find it so interesting to read everybody's stories!

[Devlesko]

teacake

I'm loving the thread too, and it just goes to show how many people have Romany genes.
I do know the name Buckland, it's very old. When I say this I mean the main families going back centuries.
Your Mills from Cornwall may be from a family that came into England from Spain. These were the names like Smith, Boswell iirc.
Jeff/ Bland another big family.
I have several Jeff/ Jeffrey links, but can't place one of them. These were the families that went to America, either by choice, or for punishment.
Although, changes of names were usually linked to dodging the law, their could be familial reasons, such as being ostracised for marrying out, or a family not liked by the other, etc.
This can make the job even harder, but when you are used to it, you seem to notice when they have done this.
E.g if you usually travelled with the extended family and you are a Smith, if all of a sudden you are a lee in s census, you can tell from the extended family that you are looking at a Smith if that makes sense.
Coopers were also known as White, Smith as Lee, etc. So whilst I've found these, other families studying other names can find the same.
Usually it was because they had done something.
Horse stealing used to carry the death penalty, and there's few families that didn't have a brush with the law.
It was common for them to be imprisoned for the most minor of offences.
Thieves and vagabonds were the order of the day because it was the way they had to live, when times were bleak.

[FoolsAssassin]

Congratulations Develsko!

Clicked on this out of curiosity and am now wondering about some of my family tree. I am vaguely remembering my Dad saying my Nan always used to say someone was a gypsy but can’t remember who it was ,

We have Smiths from Wales , from the Valleys I think and I think there is a Lee. Need to do some investigating.

[Devlesko]

Here is a timeline, you may notice some differences in spellings to other times you have seen the same word, just to confuse more
pretty sombre readings, there are better ones, but most unfortunately aren't pleasant reading.
It's from the Doncaster project, and I can actually post it as it's a link. Yeah!. I've also not found many other timelines that includes slavery.
www.proudgypsytraveller.co.uk/2016/08/22/time-line/