I'm a gypsyologist AMA

[Devlesko]

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

Billywig

Then you have a very colourful heritage, with every gypsy name known to man.
The major families are like this as they all married their own, usually.
After a while you are able to know which line will meet which family and at what point.
I can't profess to be this good but some are brilliant. I have a cousin who can tell which family someone comes from with just one look.

I'm later on tonight as have become a granny again today, little girl who is so beautiful.

Romanygenes is a good website, lots of stories and free records. Look at the little links to the other sites too, Eric has done several now, and before DNA and Gedmatch they were the main source of info on the various families.
There is a recently retired American professor who is worth a look for all those who went to America. His name Ian Hancock.
You can also gain some info, not checked recently though from Manchester Uni, professor called Yaris mantras, whilst they both seem to teach the same the latter imo is more of a linguistic expert.
I've dabbled in linguistics, but learning languages isn't a skill of mine, but it's so interesting.

Oh and thank you in advance.

And congratulations!

Hi Devlesko - were you involved in a fairly long thread about Roma culture a couple of years ago? I think I recognise yr name. It was very, very interesting, and insightful for those of us who know nothing about your culture and wanted open-mindedly to learn.(There were a few, erm, side diversions I think which were dealt with in a very mature fashion).

I always wanted to thank those involved for that thread, so belatedly, thanks! It really shaped my thinking.

(take the compliment and don’t say it wasn’t you 😊!)

Thank you minty.

I don't know much about the scottish Gypsies only the history, not clued up on many names. I have 15% DNA though, so some ancestors were there.
Mine were dumfriesshire. So really just over the border.

I will find some stuff from my files though and post it.
I know they arrived in Scotland first and were known as Egyptians, from Little Egypt.
The jury is out on whether they said this or whether it was wrongly heard/ recorded and not corrected by the gypsies themselves.

I believe wrongly recorded and the gypsies didn't argue. It was a new place and the protection they had from the Pope would have no standing in Scotland, so far away.

The question of Jewish links, yes most definitely. Another cousin of mine has 25% Jewish DNA and during the holocaust Romani suffered alongside their Jewish cousins.
A whole class was wiped out, the middle class just went.
Hitler thought them dirtier than Jews and in Auschwitz and other camps it's estimated that over a quarter of European Romany were gassed.
We call it Porajmos meaning the devouring. Coined by the aforementioned Ian Hancock.

Minty, I'm on to it now.

Loving this thread, its about time lol
My father was romany, his family were, burden, Jones, loveridge, Stanley, his first wife was a buckland , who sadly passed away then he married my mum who was a bit a gypsy .
I definitely take after him though, I'm tanned skin ,black hair and get mistaken for indian alot.

What does the title gypsy king actually mean? Was there a few at the same time? Does it come with responsibilities?

Such an interesting thread, thank you OP.

Could you talk a little more about Romany culture, specifically education for young people? You said you left school at 14 and I saw a report yesterday about Paris and Tyson Fury debating secondary school attendance for their eldest daughter. Is it still standard for Romany kids to leave school early? And what's it like being a woman in Romany culture?

Congratulations on the birth of your granddaughter!

I'm welcome some recommendations for websites/other resources to learn about Romany history and culture (from a starting point of zero). What would you suggest?

DC recently mentioned that one of their closest friend's mother is Romany and that sparked a bit of an interest, which this thread is fostering.

I'll have to see if I can (tactfully) find out what the maternal side family names are

Growing up, we had a family called Loveridge (not certain on spelling) in the next village. The father lived in a beautiful Romany caravan and had a knife sharpener attached to his bicycle. He used to visit all the local villages for work - I think our area must have had the sharpest knives in England! This was all when I was a child, so the spelling may be off, bit is that a Romany name, and if so, do you know much about the line?

Hello! I have a question that might be contentious or hard to answer. I've seen things stating that the word 'gypsy' is a slur and wondered whether you've encountered that, and what is actually thought about it? I also wondered (just popped into my head after reading about your new arrival, congrats to your family!) whether there is a tradition of home birth in your culture, and whether any of the knowledge of midwives of old has been preserved? Thanks for an interesting thread!

Fascinating! And congratulations on your granddaughter!

My family claimed to be Romany, from Ireland. My great-grandmother settled in north east England, as a widow, and remarried a settled English man.

She’s long gone, though lived until her 90s. She smoked a pipe! And lived in a painted wooden caravan as a girl.

But I’m confused as to whether she was actually an Irish traveller, or a Romany. My DNA analysis showed only Irish ancestry, from the border counties.

Were there any links or have they always been very separate?

Congratulations on the arrival of your granddaughter

When looking at ancestors, how can you tell if they were gypsies?

Hi! Have you ever come across the surnames Pearcey or Ford in the Staines area?

My ancestors lived there in the 1800s. Somebody else put a note on their family tree that an ancestor was thought to be Romany, but I don't know how to verify!

They lived on Staines Moor and were listed on the census as labourer. Neighbouring people on the census were listed as general dealers which I know to be a gypsy profession, so possible it was a gypsy settlement?

Do you know any Biddles?

I am going to work backwards and hopefully pick up anything I've missed.

I have come across the name Ford, although not in my direct line. There's a man on one of the groups. I believe it was a family who married in to Romany you did find that quite often. Then of course that person took on the lifestyle, culture, had a family which then became a Romany family.
I've never heard of that many outsiders marrying in that the family becomes non Romany. If that makes sense.
So yes, Ford is Romany but more recent than the ancient families.

How can you tell Romany/ traveller ancestors?

The usual giveaway is where they are living tents, caravans, workhouses, lodgings. Although during the winter many would stay with family members with bricks n mortar shelter.

Occupations are interesting and include chair bottomer, knife grinder, hawker, general labourer, general dealer, earthenware dealer, fairground workers, (not always travellers though), rag and bone men.

Sometimes it will actually say gypsy, or you can find rather than address descriptions such as 3ft past the post box, over the style and 10 ft up the hill, or into the field. I've had a couple of these from my Welsh lot. Living in bender tents on mountains and hills.

Their children will be born in different places, and you'll often find them travelling with other family names you recognise.
There is usually a stopping place they went back to for Christenings and often several all done at once. You'll see this in bmd records.

@Devlesko I don’t have any questions or ancestry but thank you for such an interesting thread! I’m from Scotland and there are quite a few words in various dialects of Scots that have a Romany etymology. Same everywhere in varieties of English too. Do you speak Romany? (oh, I did have a question )

Forgot one.
A very high percentage of names are biblical, you might not recognise it as such as many use the old/new testament as well as the Bible.
A cousin had a baby recently and called her vashti, to which I was just replying "so you didn't go with a biblical name"? When she reposted Yes, Queen Vashti from the book of Esther.
Was so pleased i type slowly.

Irish Romany do exist, but they are very rare. The two are completely different cultures, but if someone says they are one or the other you can generally believe they know for sure.
Obviously people move all the time, but the rare families are those that started from scratch and made a new life. I do know that these existed from a couple of hundred years ago, but there aren't many.

Biddles sounds like it could be another person that married in, I will check it out for you though.

I don't speak Romany well, but can understand much more.
There are so many different dialects but to hear the elders now it's evolved into a pigeon English that many of us don't understand.
The younger ones just pick out words here and there and of course we all call our children Chav's, chavvies, etc.
This is why you'll find us objecting to the word used to describe undesirable traits.
It's our world for child, so beautiful, yet used so badly.

Faffing
Definitely gypsy names and knife grinder occupation. Your spelling is bob on btw.

The word "Gypsy" is seen as a slur to some, as it gives the impression Romany originated in Egypt and of course is just wrong. They see the word used to describe romantic notions, clothes, boho trends, etc.
I find this mostly in Europe though not the UK.
I'm not sure why we don't tbh, maybe it's because we aren't so prominent, have fewer battles, well, apart from Priti Patel, Gove, Boris of course.

Thank you for the congratulations, she is beautiful, so many pictures on fb.

Home birth.
Until pretty recently babies were born in a separate van, and the women tended to by her sisters aunties cousins etc.
All the women cook for the new family, do laundry and the mother given the time to rest.
The men really still don't have anything to do with childcare but in fairness the ones who want to be involved are. There is no stigma of womens work like there used to be. I think we are very similar to the rest of society in this respect, although the man and elders are still considered as the top of the hierarchy. Elders first, then the men.
Women come into their own after childbirth, until this time they are sort of bottom of the pile, they are disrespected though, just have little say.
Now births are mostly in hospital, my generation were the last to be born at home, although hospitals were used for complications.
I was born in hospital for this reason, I'm gutted as can't say I'm the last born in a van

Near where my grandmother grew up was a Gypsy site - the 1911 census shows Smith and Shepard families there - but living in houses there at the time was my great great grandparents who were Smiths and Shepards (shepherd). The smith ancestors seemed to travel around a lot, but didn't have the typical jobs. One was a printer. Also had biblical names.

My great-grandmother has blue black hair and blue eyes and everyone said she looked like a gypsy. Nothing has shown up in my dna though, but there's not many links to my mums side at all.

A what?! Do you mean sociologist or anthropologist?

Thank you for the pointers to other academics and their work, I’ll investigate those.

I’m fascinated by this, I don’t know very much at all about my family due to fall outs between my dad & his parents. The whole family has a very distinctive look (we look Asian but we’re not as far as I know)
My grandmother’s maiden name was Comerford & years ago I found a photo of travelling acrobats with this name (never been able to find it since!) is it a Romany name?