I'm a gypsyologist AMA

[Devlesko]

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

[Devlesko]

teacake, I want your df Gedmatch, you never know.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the Spalding Museum, I've never been, but heard about it, and seen pictures.
It's ironic the time you have at home to visit these places they are closed. I'm intending on going though.

[Devlesko]

I hope you all stick around btw, I could chat for England.

Question:

Do I sound like/ come across as somebody with a low IQ, learning difficulties, ill educated, having left school at 14, with no qualifications.

[Balaur]

Thanks for this! Are there any particular books which are good to read up on the culture? Both fiction and non-fiction.

What do you think of fictional depictions of the Romany? The Shelbys in Peaky Blinders spring to mind!

[JustDoinTheDo]

What a great thread, and what a fascinating way to spend your time! I’m quite envious .

Can you tell us a bit more about Romany culture? I’m quite ignorant about it, although I am fairly knowledgable about Irish traveller culture.

[bringbacksideburns]

My husband is a Romany Boswell. Have you ever heard of the Black Jack Boswell line?

[HoneysuckIejasmine]

I find it fascinating. I have never knowingly met a Romany gypsy but have met several Irish traveller children through work. What, in your opinion, are the many differences between the two groups, other than ethnic origin?

(I found the traveller children to be very polite and respectful of elders)

[NetballHoop]

@Devlesko

Romany originate from India, although this is apparent in most DNA there are those recently arguing the origins are Egypt.
The language when broken down is certainly interesting and definitely concludes the origins as Indian.

Yes, those in Portugal will be Romany as this was a stopping place during the first 500 years of migration.
It's a significant marker in DNA too, although mine must have come through Italy and Sardinia, I have no portuguese markings. It's lovely you find time to stop and chat to them.

I'm not sure about unknown, but many/ most keep the traditions even if they live in Bricks n mortar.
However, yes, they are dotted about all over the place, but unless you know that's where they are you'd never guess.
I think the caves in Almeria Spain are a good example. There were fires a couple of months ago in the hills. I have distant family there it was quite scary for them. They live in the caves just as always.

Saucery.
I have, and yes it's fascinating. The only problem is and one I'm finding is everytime you come up with a theory that quite often can neither be proved or disproved there's always somebody who rejects the claim. Plus of course we are always learning new facts.
But yes, a significant piece of writing.

So sorry to hear about the fires in Almeria. I couldn't make it out there this year but have been there most years. For many years we used to visit an old chap in Cuevas del Almanzora who had an amazing selection of old books and curios for sale.

As far as I know Almeria still has the highest percentage of cave dwellers in the world.

How do you find the way Romany are treated by society in different countries? Is there a big difference?

[Saucery]

@Devlesko

I hope you all stick around btw, I could chat for England.

Question:

Do I sound like/ come across as somebody with a low IQ, learning difficulties, ill educated, having left school at 14, with no qualifications.

No, you’ve mentioned that before and you never do to me.
School Smart is totally different to Actual Smart though! Hope you never define yourself by what you were told growing up.

[BillywigSting]

I'm part of the Lee line but know very little about them, can you tell me a bit about them?

[Devlesko]

Ha Ha, the Lee family.
There are branches that are quite distinct, but others that prove difficult.
I have a difficult branch/ stem, they tend to change names with smith, quite a bit.
Some had the same child christened twice, once as lee once as a Smith.
A lot hailed from Lancashire, some from Wales.

[Devlesko]

Saucery

Thank you very much, I wasn't after compliments, honestly.
Covid and lack of work has seemed to knock my confidence a fair bit and just needed a reality check.

Now, Romany in different countries is an interesting point.
First of all there are two main schools of thought.
The first being that Romany and Roma are the same because the origins and migration were the same.
The second is that once reaching Europe from the mediterranean they ceased being the same and separated to Rom, those making their home in Eastern Europe and those travelling further into the UK or other areas of Europe. Note to self: learn which other areas.
It's important to understand this as you'll get different answers from different schools.
I'm of the first school because I share DNA with Eastern Europeans and consider them family the same as other Romany.

They are treated terribly throughout Europe, Italy they aren't allowed into the cities and were starved of essentials when lockdown happened.
I've seen live film of Police beating children with Batons in Hungary.
I mean the persecution has been throughout history, the timeline of events barely has respite from the 14th century onwards.

Even now my own children found it difficult to be themselves at school. Bullying is still rife today and the lack of education is wrong. I'm not saying a lot of time needs to be spent on this, but visits were essential to educating the next generation.
I won't give up though, I'm so glad I started this thread. It's reminded me that not everybody judges us as bad people.

[BabyLlamaZen]

I don't know much about romany gypsies so really interesting, thank you.

What are the main differences between romany and Irish travellers culture wise? Apart from the fact they have different origins!!

Can you tell us about some of the culture please?
What kind of jobs do people have, what about religion?

[mintyfreshh]

We think we have Romany blood stretching back on my grandfather's side, but my grandmother, his wife, steadfastly refuses to discuss anything about him or his past (on account of her prejudice). So if you know anything about Hawkins family, hailing from Sussex/Kent I'd love to chat.

[Devlesko]

Black Jack Boswell is in my tree, descended from Sarah Boswell, next generation, I believe. Sarah is something like my 4x grandma. You can never be specific with Romany DNA I've found all kinds of incestuous relationships from as recently as last century.
Sorry, not saying that's a line of it, of course, but if it was, it would have been previous generations.
They sort of did us a favour though in a way, our DNA as a race is very interesting as because of the endogamy we can follow the migration from India, mine fits like a glove

[BillywigSting]

Mine hail from Ireland and Wales

[Devlesko]

I'm not familiar with Irish traveller culture, but I know it's nothing like you see on tv.
In general their girls seem to settle down younger than Romany, but that's a loose generalisation.
Religion is mostly Roman Catholic and varies a lot in practice. Almost all take it seriously even if they don't follow religion.

Jobs:

I saw an interesting meme on an activists page that said I am a .....Every profession was listed including Barrister and at the end it said "I am a Romany".
Do you know, it even made me sit up and think. Of course I know what professions my family have, but I'm aware that society doesn't always know. Yes we have pavers but everything else, too.
As a race we are seeing the value of education much more. Even traditionalists are paying for a tutor for ks3 and GCSE Maths and English.
I don't blame them for not enrolling them in school, it's not the schools or the children but it just doesn't fit.
That said I will argue for education till the end. It took me until my late 30's but I got there.
I must state my leaving school at 14 was not related to Romany culture. As with many children of my time I was bullied for not understanding and being "backward" it was a terrible system of abuse. I'm so glad it's better for children now.

Romany celebrate the dead on xmas eve, generally speaking, loosely again.

Divorce is still quite rare, but does happen and there is also domestic violence, just as any other race, creed, culture.
I myself helped a relative escape from England to Ireland. As to this side of the family I was practically unknown as I married a none Romany.
There were no hard feelings but we just socialised with who we wanted to and they are huge families.

[TeaAndHobnob]

Was Charlie Chaplin a gypsy?

I'm from Birmingham and I've been reading a bit about the black patch. It sounds a bit mad at first but I wonder what you think.

[Twilightstarbright]

Are there any links between Roma/Romany and Jews? Both have migrated across Europe and have been marginalised so I wondered about it.

[FenellaMaxwell]

This thread is really interesting. I had no idea until very recently that my family had Romany heritage when my cousins and I took an ancestry DNA test and got quite a high proportion of Portuguese Romany. Now it’s been pointed out to me and I look back at my family tree I realise which strand of my family were Romany and I would really like to know more about them - do you know where is a good place for me to start?

[Devlesko]

A good place to start seriously is Romany Ancestry Uk fb group.
As long as you are nice you are welcome they are very friendly and any bullying of I'm more romany than you etc is stamped on if it ever exists on that site.
So many people are finding Romany roots, DNA has opened it all up, people all over the world, it truly is amazing.
I have more cousins in America than I do England. I was born here, lived here all my life and so did at least the last 4 generations.
Just tell the admin the name of the family or say why you are interested you'll be welcome.

Billywig Welsh Lee gypsies, just for you. Enjoy.
www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-lee.htm

[BillywigSting]

Thank you very much op!

[BillywigSting]

And yes that is my branch!

My uncle did some family tree digging and the name Henry rings a very clear bell. My dad his parents are from wicklow but further back are around Dublin.

It's very interesting!

[SlopesOff]

How can I find out more about the Bucklands please? There is history of Bucklands in my family but can only trace back a little way.

[teacake89]

@SlopesOff have you looked at the old census records? My great grandmother is recorded in the 1911 one as living in a caravan with her family. Their professions were recorded as 'licenced hawkers.' Romany Genes website has the records there for free.

[mintyroller]

Can you tell me anything about the travellers from Perthshire, Scotland? My dad comes from them and he uses words like chavi so I'm interested to see if they're Roma and how far back it goes. The only surname I can think of to give you is Williamson, I'm afraid. I haven't spoken much to him about it (apart from him teaching me some Cant when I was wee) and we never really get round to talking about it.