I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

[PikesPeaked]

Bells, I thought the third unbreakable prohibition was that you must not commit incest.

(Two Jews, three opinions )

[Bells3032]

@PikesPeaked I think it's more sexual misconduct in general - ie any forbidden relationship inc incest and adultery

[BestIsWest]

This is absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much.

[AnnaJKing]

Jews are recognised as an ethnic group under British law. Oh boy the arguments I’ve had over that.

[buckeejit]

So is the ethnic/religious argument contentious because on the one hand it's mostly passed down through blood but on the other, people can opt in by converting? Sorry if my basic descriptions cause any offence-just trying to understand

[HavartitoMeetYou]

Yes, thank you for this thread.

I’m an Orthodox Jew too, and I think it’s worth flagging that some of the things discussed here (eg shaving of heads and other things from the TV show Unorthodox) are not common Jewish or even orthodox Jewish traditions, they are specific to Haredi / Satmar communities, which are ultra-orthodox sects. Please don’t think Unorthodox represents typical Jewish life, that’s like thinking a TV show about, I don’t know, a super strict Mormon sect represents all Christians.

[Desiringonlychild]

@HavartitoMeetYou I also didn't understand why Estee playing the piano was such a big issue. My sister in law is orthodox, shomer shabbat and pretty mainstream orthodox and she plays the flute for a living. Yes Satmar is way more 'right wing' but in order to sustain the kollel lifestyle, most women have to go to work (even if its limited hours). I can see there is an issue with her being a performer, but what would have her been the issue with her learning the piano for her private enjoyment and then becoming a music teacher.I think it was an exaggeration that she would have had to keep the music lessons a secret.

[buckeejit]

I know it's not typical but most extreme.

I'm from a staunch Presbyterian family in NI & we didn't watch TV on a Sunday, most families would but others have various perceived or self imposed other restrictions on their lifestyles. There's the odd extreme family that would restrict everything but that's not exactly due to Christianity/Presbyterian or any particular denomination

I'm interested in the circumcision question too. I'm spiritual & have my own liberal beliefs that don't tie nicely to any denomination but it does seem like undoing Gods creation in a way. Is there any debate as to whether circumcision should carry on?

[WalkingInTheAir13]

@Therollockingrogue and @Bells3032

Wisdom (?) from my Jewish grandmother:
She maintained that Jewish girls always had beautiful skin, hair and teeth because they ate plenty of fish, herring etc.
She also said that Jewish people are not big drinkers because "they know how to have a wonderful time without alcohol"

[HavartitoMeetYou]

Maybe it’s because kosher wine is gross?

(Hides gin behind matzo.)

[HavartitoMeetYou]

Though actually gin does tend to be kosher, as long as it’s not flavoured.

[CayrolBaaaskin]

@havartitoMeetyou - only the ghastly Palwin style stuff. There’s lots of nice wine that’s kosher (although it’s expensive).

Some of my family are chasidic (but are not Satmar). They are more open to the outside world than Satmars and don’t shave their heads (but do cover their hair when married). These days I’m more modern.

The circumcision thing is just the same as kosher laws - it’s commanded to do it on the 8th day of life. So it should be done and it would be a bit of a scandal if it wasn’t.

[Pelleas]

Thank you for your earlier answer

[Frankiefree]

Desiringonlychild - Due to the new admission rules I think things at schools have changed a lot over the years and the head boy/girl team at JFS has had reform Jews too.

[Frankiefree]

You can message me if you like..

[Pelleas]

Just reading the comments about wine - what is it that would make some wine or other alcoholic drinks non-kosher?

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

@Bells3032 - the debate about the kosher laws is fascinating. During my cousin's conversion process, she had to learn Hebrew and some lengthy test about Jewish laws. As a lawyer, she liked the debate and she would argue/debate with the Rabbi endlessly about whether giraffe was kosher. . Technically it was kosher per the definition of chewing cud etc, but the Rabbi insisted it wasn't. Think she liked that fact that he always said, 'please argue with me..' rather than her upbringing where she was not encouraged to discuss issues.

But obviously an academic exercise as at no stage would she ever eat giraffe

[PetraDelphiki]

My understanding is that giraffe is kosher except that you can’t be sure exactly where on the neck to cut!!!

Wine is potentially not kosher if it’s filtered through bone meal

[HavartitoMeetYou]

I’m not an expert, but rules for alcohol are complicated. Broadly, alcohol made from any kind of fruit has to be made and handled entirely by Jewish workers and have kosher certification. Alcohol made from grain has less strict rules. But there are rules over what kind of wood barrel-aged alcohol is contained in, so some kinds of whisky are fine and some not. Most gin and vodka (unless flavoured with fruit) is fine even if not made by Jewish workers or be certified since it’s made only from grain or potatoes.

[PikesPeaked]

Isinglass. It's often used to clarify wines and is made from a dried fish organ and there's no way of guaranteeing that it came from kosher fish. Similar issue to vegetarian wine, I suppose, with added religious issues.

[PikesPeaked]

I like Palwin. No10, the red, is a bit like port, and the white (which I haven't seen in years, No11?) is like a dessert wine or a very sweet sherry. Kedem OTOH is thin and horrible.

But the point of wine in Jewish life is not to drink it for enjoyment. It is to drink it to mark a special occasion, like a festival - you drink it because you're happy, you don't drink it to make yourself happy.

I remember a marvellous family reunion meal, 17 people of all ages at one long table laden with food and treats, and more dishes constantly being brought to the table. Celebration, welcome, laughter and happiness. And one bottle of wine between us all. Every single person down to the youngest child at the table had a tiny shot glass of wine so that we could say the blessings and give thanks for the joyous occasion.

My non-Jewish dh was confused. By his culture, one bottle of wine was extremely stingy, almost offensive. Yet it was clear that we were in an environment of great generosity. By my culture, stinginess would be not feeding everyone to bursting point with the best food available!

[PetraDelphiki]

There’s also something about wine having to be mevushal for the utterly strict (it’s boiled so that apparently it’s not them valid for idolatrous use so can be served by non Jews who might otherwise say a prayer to an idol over it which would make it non kosher)....(no I struggle with that one too)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_wine

[Pelleas]

Thanks for that link, it's fascinating - I would never have thought of drinks being kosher or not - I always imagined it just applied to food.

I must admit I would be surprised to see a single bottle of wine shared amongst 17 people. I'd probably assume it was a terribly rare vintage wine or something!

[MissConductUS]

I'm a Christian but we have lots of modern orthodox and various Hasidic communities in my part of New York, so this is very interesting and helpful in understanding them better. Thanks Bells.

[Mlou32]

This is so interesting. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I've just started watching orthodox and before this, one of us. Fascinating.

I have a question about something in orthodox. When the husband and friend checked in at a hotel in Berlin, the receptionist said something about then being from Israel. One of the Jewish men then said something along the lines of "Israel? Zionists!" And pretended to spit on the ground. Now I don't know that much about the Israeli situation but I thought that Israel was a special land for Jews. And thus, especially the orthodox ones, would support Israel. And also, Zionism is basically support for re-establishing a jewish land isn't it? So why would a Jewish person not support that and respond in such a manner?