I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

@Elladisenchanted actually i thought that the prenups were common here. I actually know a woman whose ex tried to get a bigger share of the house by using the get as blackmail. He actually succeeded by getting an extra £100K (london housing gah). She didn't have a prenup. So I thought stories like this would mean everyone would want a prenup just in case.

I can't remember who but someone asked how we can reconcile faith and belief in a loving Gd and the Holocaust. It's a common question and discussion in Judaism. It goes a step further - the Holocaust was a last bloody chapter in centuries of persecution and violence. The pogroms in Eastern Europe, the Spanish inquisition and expulsion, more recent expulsion from Middle Eastern countries, the Greek attempt to wipe us out, the Romans, even the English expelled us at what point and the York massacre was a particularly gruesome episode. To this day many frum Jews do not sleep overnight in York. Why did it all happen? What was the purpose?

There are a lot of discussions and responses given but how I see it probably won't be a very satisfactory answer for you as it is rooted in faith rather than logic. I believe in a loving Gd who cares about each and every one of us. I don't know the reason why it had to happen but if Gd allowed it to happen He must have had a reason and a purpose. I'm not seeing the complete picture, I'm seeing only a fragment and that's OK.

@Desiringonlychild not common as far as I know. There are people raising awareness of them but it's a complex area and I don't know if everyone agrees with them.

And @Desiringonlychild that's disgusting that he did that. There's a dark place in hell for men like that. Literally the antithesis of derech eretz.

I don't know what I am trying to say @Pikes - it just seems to me that we should be doing more, not because we are not necessarily responsible, but because it is the right thing to do.

Morally right.

@Elladisenchanted its actually very interesting that jewish divorce is increasing for women who are in unhappy marriages. The divorce rate for secular people is actually decreasing. Not because we have discovered the elixir of happy marriages, or women are less emancipated. Its mainly because marriage is now becoming the preserve of middle class and higher income people, as weddings are seen as a luxury. There are a lot of theories why lower income women don't marry the fathers of their children, but one theory is that there is not much financial advantage to marrying a poor man.

Money is a big source of tension for couples so richer couples are less likely to break up. Rich and professional men tend to marry wives who are similar, so this amplifies their disposable income, leaving them in a good position to raise DC comfortably. In contrast, poorer people tend to cohabitate (there are exceptions in more liberal circles). If they break up, its not reflected in the divorce statistics. So it looks like the divorce rate has gone down but actually we are just seeing a smaller part of the whole picture.

Whereas for religious people, both rich and poor people marry so you get a less skewed view

There are a lot of discussions and responses given but how I see it probably won't be a very satisfactory answer for you as it is rooted in faith rather than logic. I believe in a loving Gd who cares about each and every one of us. I don't know the reason why it had to happen but if Gd allowed it to happen He must have had a reason and a purpose. I'm not seeing the complete picture, I'm seeing only a fragment and that's OK.

Thanks @Elladisenchanted I get this.

Someone asked about Jews For Jesus. They’re not recognised as Jews by other Jewish groups. “Messianic Jews” are generally seen as evangelical Christians. Some Jews believe these groups are trying to kind of sneakily convert Jews to Christianity.

I never knew about the massacre in York!
Jews have been treated appallingly. I can totally understand why my husbands Grandfather anglicised his name in the late 1800s.
Why are they so persecuted? I can't get my head round it at all.

@ofwarren you can scroll through a support Jeremy Corbyn Facebook group and you would get lots of examples. The new anti semitism is more subtle than its predecessors but it isn't less intense.

For those of you who have visited Israel, what is it like?
Do you visit for mainly religious reasons or do you visit for vacation reasons too?
I have looked at photos of the resort's there and it looks beautiful.

I visited 20 odd years ago. I remember very clearly entering Jerusalem. I couldn’t get my head around the fact that I was there - this place I had learned about as a child and it is golden - someone told me all the buildings had to be made out of the local rock which is yellowish. It was also a party city, pulsating, vibrant, kicking in all the right places. I couldn’t believe it and loved it straight away.

I spoke to someone a few years back who said it was very different, now. Much more conservative.

I was on a kibbutz near by and we caught the tail end of the hippy trail I think. The film ‘Hair’ was played all the time and the backpackers I hung out with we’re all Dutch, Danish, etc.

Funnily enough we all got back in touch with one another during lockdown - we had a unique experience which none of us will ever forget. It also gave me so much in terms of self belief, direction, focus - like a great weight was off my shoulders. Not sure whether that was being outdoors or the sunshine or the free spiritedness nature of backpacking.

Eilat was interesting - I wish I had seem more of the North but the most extraordinary thing was crossing the border at Taba into Egypt. We used to hitch hike in lorries across the Negev from the kibbutz to Eilat so we saw Masada, the Dead Sea etc but the landscape and atmosphere in the Sinai is something I’ll never forget - a complete shift overtakes your senses and you are in a timeless zone. Mostly we met Bedouins and some Cairo arabs and other backpackers on their way to the take a felucca down the Nile.

It is so different to our experiences here - history and nature overwhelm you and give you a sense of what the world was first of all, before we built on everything.

I suppose Jews have been in a way the first and main guardians of remembering and commemorating the Holocaust because it was aimed primarily at us.

At the same time, it must be an appalling thing to have to come to terms with from the other side. If your family, community or even country were involved, directly or indirectly, or turned a blind eye to it, I can understand the desire not to dwell on it. Like I said, you're not responsible for the actions of your ancestors. It's a small step from that, to trying to erase the memory of what your ancestors did.

I remember watching a film called The Nasty Girl, at school (a North London CofE secondary). It was a subtitled French film about a girl who does a school history project and ends up uncovering her town's collusion with the occupying Nazi forces during the Holocaust. The townspeople call her nasty for bringing up memories they would rather keep buried, which reveal secrets to newcomers and outsiders that paint them in a different light to how they think of themselves.

But in Germany Holocaust education has been part of every child's education since the war ended. And in UK schools children begin learning about the Holocaust in Y5 or 6, and it continues through to GCSE. The responsibility for remembering and hopefully learning from the horrors is not just Jewish.

@PikesPeaked I didn't realise you were Jewish, Pikes - I assumed you were Christian - my apologies.

Then I will take onboard what you have said, because it does make a difference to me when it comes from someone Jewish.

My family are Irish and I remember reading on the Irish Jewish website how the community there (Dublin based) helped the Irish soldiers during the War of Independence. They were very proud of this. My family were affected as they were in that part of the country (Tipp/Cork)

Pikes I asked upthread about non-Jewish anglophone people using Yiddish words, thanks for your answer. This is such an interesting thread.

@ofwarren I went to israel last year for the first time to attend my SIL's wedding. She lives there and met her DH there. I went to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. I thought I would prefer Tel Aviv but surprisingly i preferred Jerusalem which has much more to see. The air smelled cleaner there, I prayed at the egalitarian section of the western wall. i liked exploring the Jewish quarter. I was in Jerusalem over shabbat and the reform synagogue was very Anglo- friendly; DH and I met some really nice people. The poverty I saw in Jerusalem shocked me a little. I was staying in the Christian Quarter (we were there at peak season and we had a good deal on a lovely little pilgrim house who didn't know we were Jews or they may not have minded) so it is possible that the area around there where there were haredi families was exceptionally poor. The Christian Quarter is lovely though, clean and very green. But it was the tiniest, windowless apartments and huge families (think 7-10 kids). Jerusalem had some really lovely shops selling beautiful religious accessories and dresses with Sleeves (so hard to find in the uk).

Tel Aviv has a lovely beach though and I also went to Jaffa, which is gorgeous. Unfortunately, it was Tish b Av (fast day) when I visited Jaffa and also in August, so my enjoyment was affected by extreme thirst. It is a lovely little port with narrow alleyways and old buildings. Tel Aviv is amazing for art, i recommend the Ilana Goor museum which is very ecletic and has an amazing roof terrace where you can see for miles ahead. Tel Aviv is also famous for its bauhaus style architecture.

You walk a lot in Israel.the 3 cities I have lived in (berlin, singapore and London) all have metro systems so i am not used to being in a city without a metro system. We walked everywhere and thats what a lot of israelis do, or they cycle. Food can be quite expensive, this surprised me because i have always lived in expensive cities and i thought i was accustomed to high prices.

@Desiring

You should try and do some walking in London - it’s a different city on foot. I never use the tube in central London

@Desiringonlychild I'm surprised - Jerusalem has actually built a light rail now and the bus system is light years ahead of the UK. If you go back try it out, there's always so much more to see and explore there - you'd probably find the blind museum fascinating :)

I go to israel to visit family mainly and for simchos (celebrations ( weddings bar mitzvos etc). It's a mix of the old and the new, history and tradition standing side by side with innovation and development. Each city has its own unique flavour and feel. I'm sitting here thinking and trying to write but I can't put it into words.

@Seranada the stone you describe is called Jerusalem stone. They use it in nearby bet shemesh too. I think if you went back you'd fall in love with Jerusalem all over again. I don't know what you mean by more conservative but to me it's still as you describe a vibrant, living, beautiful medley of a city.

@Elladisenchanted

Thanks, Ella - it really is beautiful - gives a golden haze to the city - a bit like Oxford (I often wondered about that expression 'build a new Jerusalem' ?)

I do want to go back - I would love to a kibbutz again. There is something there that I want to connect too. I just don't know what it is.

Do you know the website 'www.aish.com' ? What do you think of it?

@serenada gosh my DH used to go to Aish events in secondary school, it turned one of his friends haredi. Even though they aren't haredi I think. But for his friend, he started with Aish and somehow became haredi. I think it's popular with younger people, esp professionals.

@serenada I love aish.com

serenada your post is making me feel homesick. I grew up hearing my mum (a kibbutzim, near Eilat) talk about travelling and camping in the desert, and Bedouin. I’ve spent a bit of time with Bedouin and the way they’re treated by the Israeli government is appalling. Also spent time in Druze households who are a very interesting people.

I’ve travelled around Israel a lot, but the only place I spent any significant time in is Tel Aviv. Amazing food and beautiful beaches. Very laid back. It’s fun to walk to Jaffa and look at the gardens and my favourite little whale!

Last time I crossed the land border from Jordan on foot, which was a strange experience.

Did anyone else do Birthright?

@Elladisenchanted yes I did use the light rail. Its just not as extensive as London where you really don't need a car. Even in zone 3. I know people who manage well without a car in zone 5. Tfl buse and the tube are not as good as in Singapore or berlin but it is extensive enough that Londoners are able to live miles and miles away from work. One of the reasons my SIL made Aliyah was because in Tel Aviv she walks and cycles to work while in London, it's almost certain she would have to commute from zone 3 (Golders Green, Hendon, Finchley) or zone 6 (borehamwood). She says that it's a big improvement on quality of life not having to travel miles and miles to get to work/school.

Also my sister in law's wedding and henna ceremony were in petah tikvah so we had to use taxis, no public transport to get there.