I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

@Desiringonlychild oh I see what you mean. I thought you meant more withing Jerusalem itself

I wonder what happens if you convert for marriage but the marriage fails? It’s such a massive thing to do and it wouldn’t occur to anyone to convert unless there was a marriage I wouldn’t have thought?

@eachandeveryone actually in ultra orthodox Judaism converting for marriage is not considered a good reason for conversion. Probably for this reason. You have to commit to the religion independent of relationships.

@EachandEveryone there are many people who don't convert for marriage. I definitely didn't convert for marriage, as my DH is the kind of Jew who doesn't even fast for Yom Kippur. My DH was kinda upset that I converted but i think he is happy that it is liberal and not orthodox . In my conversion class, there were many people without a Jewish spouse or partner. And my synagogue recognizes patrilineal Jews and allows non Jews to be affilated with the synagogue (all the benefits of synagogue membership without voting rights). So there is really no need to convert for the kids or anything. Ok you can't have a traditional wedding ceremony if you don't convert in liberal judaism, but no one makes such a lifechanging commitment for 30 minutes under the chuppah.

my MIL is divorced and she is a convert. She knew her ex way before she converted though, but she didn't convert for him. You aren't allowed to convert for marriage in orthodox judaism; the rabbinate needs to be sure that you would stay orthodox no matter what. Even in reform judaism, the narrative is that you are organically drawn into judaism, not to marry someone but to be part of the family.

Ah, thank you. So your MIL is the one that lives her Jewish life strictly by the book and she was a convert? It’s all really interesting, thank you.

@EachandEveryone yes. She apparently had a dream to convert since she was 12 years old, thats what DH tells me. And she moved country to convert so thats was a pretty big step.

I married out, my husband is an atheist. Unless my great aunt asks.

A really interesting thread all, thank you.

Just two trivial questions but things I’ve been mulling over. Hope they don’t offend.

1. I’ve been reading on the thread that the word “frum” refers to women who follow the rules very strictly. Is that correct? If so I was wondering if that is where the words “frump/ frumpy” came from? I wonder if it was used as derogatory term or just as a name?

2. In terms of different foods that can’t be mixed does that apply to toiletries too eg do you wear / use animal free products?

@orchidflower1 frum is Yiddish for pious. It applies to everyone not just women. I doubt it's connected to frumpy although we have a saying 'frum not frumpy' for people who dress tzniut (that means according to halachic guidelines) meaning that just because you have to cover up you don't have to look frumpy!

No toiletries are not a problem. Only food and drink

Thank you @Elladisenchanted. Fascinating.

@Elladisenchanted my MIL uses a special kind of toothpaste for shabbat. I am not sure what the prohibition it relates to, but it is liquid (so not in a tube like colgate).
She also uses a chametz free toothpaste for passover ( i assume its chametz free cos its kosher for passover).

The toothpaste thing I do on pesach too but that's because of chametz not becauae of kashrus. Toothpaste is a bit of an exception because you do end up swallowing a bit. But cosmetics and other things and clothes etc doesn't have to be kosher. Other things apply like shaatnez bit not kashrus really

@Elladisenchanted how do orthodox jewish women pay for childcare? I am saving up for childcare for 1 and I find that hard! Its 1600 for a nursery i am looking at for a 6 month old, full time hours. How do they do it for 3-6. i did notice that the orthodox creche is much cheaper but only by 20% less so its still challenging to afford for multiple children (i once thought i was pregnant and started frantically looking for childcare options in Hendon. Surely not everyone has wfh jobs? and young couples are unlikely to have space for au pairs.

(evoha, that's a lovely story. My granny, Roman Catholic, used to do things like switch the oven on for a Jewish neighbour)

A distant relative had a job in the days of coal fires, she used to go round houses and make the fire and then return later to add fuel etc.

OP or other Jewish posters, first thank you for this, I actually came on here intending to say, "I'm not Jewish but can someone explain..."

Anyway I'm another Shtisel addict so a few questions about the way things are portrayed.

1. smoking, all the men seem to smoke most of the time, I know it's probably not against any commandments but it seemed odd that people who keep away from TV, the opposite sex and have strict rules about food seem not to care about smoking.

2. Food - I've been looking at cookbooks can yuo recomend one and with regard to Shtisel all the meals consist of salad, and or omelette and or soup? How typical is this?

3. relationships with the opposite sex. I'm going to ecpress this badly because I struggle to sort it in my mind. I know there is an expectancy to be a virgin before marriage (or first marriage) and that's fairly standard with more religeous people of various faiths buyt it seems at odds with a girl going to meet a man in a hotel at 9pm. I know they are in a public place but I was surprised there is no shaperone.

Also it seems fine for the widowed man to go to a widowed woman's house for food with no gossip.

OK a couple specific to the TV show / Isreal. In the first series a women starts converting money to make ends meet. Why is this a thing? Do banks charge a lot of comission?

Also series one the main character is giving out heaters in memory of his mother (the series starts at a year after his mother's death) I can't remember the term used.

Thank you again for starting this.

I once came accross a young lady who was orthodox pretty up there on strictness levels. Parents are highly regarded in the community. She was blooming wild. I never understood how she got away with girlie holidays in Ibiza and everything. She said her parents just rolled their eyes. She had a bf and went away with him too. She would laugh and say she will be covering herself as soon as they get engaged. I want to say loads but everyone knows everyone in North London. She was a good laugh and a v good worker. I do think she will take her professional qualifications back into her community. I wanted to ask her all the questions that have popped up on here but it didn’t seem appropriate.

The mums I have come accross tend to have au pairs and they don’t work (this is GG) tbh I’ve always found them to be quite well off. That’s why I asked the question if they get rent relief if the husband is a full time student. Because GG with 5 plus children must be eye watering. Even if the grandparents are loaded they themselves have 8 plus children. Unless they move into flats and leave the big family home, that could be the case.

Don't really have much time to answer today because I'm behind on cooking and my house needs serious cleaning but will give a go briefly!

Re childcare - it's an issue. Most people muddle through somehow. I'm in Manchester and London is probably
different but only know one person personally with an au pair. A lot of women end up in education focused jobs bc the school hours help, although none of the schools seem to ever line up their holidays exactly so it's always loads of favours and family to fill the gaps. Most of the schools have attached creches and nurseries for the staff which is cheaper than regular nursery. Quite a few people have home based businesses. Also it's only usually childcare for one or two at most as the others go to school. If you have the large families with 4 under 5 or whatever you are unlikely to be working.

It's a challenge and definitely affects incomes.

This was a good BBC programme although only the clip of it is available now www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05syf32

London is outrageous price wise I which renting didn’t have stuck a stigma.

Gosh I sound drunk! I must get back and do some work.

@sashh smoking is a specifically chareidi thing, mostly in Israel ultra orthodox, I don't know about USA. I think it's a holdover from the thinking that men didn't have a lot of outlets (TV etc) and smoking was an acceptable way to relax (pre awareness of smoking damage) . I do belive they are trying to raise smoking awareness on the chareidi Israel communities but it's taking a lot of time. Its mainly the men interestingly.

2 food - evelyn cookbook the international cookbook I love personally. Also the bais yaakov cookbook is great. Not seen shtisel, and I'm not a member of the ultra orthodox chareidi Israeli community so I guess they prob did their research there and its probably accurate - I don't knowIt's not a standard meal here though. I mean it's a normal thing to have as a meal but it's not staple daily diet. It varies from community to community. Persian, iraqi, Moroccan, Syrian and Tunisian Jews (sephardi) have a very different diet to ashkenazi Jews and even they differ,and tend to be adopt norms of countries they live in as well. My friends in New York love a pb and j but if rather have a baked potato for lunch or a tuna sandwich. Also we all share recipes all the time so a lot of cooking is very very mixed in heritage. For examole I make chicken soup and lokshen (very ashkenazi) I eat chocolate babka on shabbos morning (more Hungarian Jewish) but I also dip my challa in schug or harissa.

1. I'm not sure about the scene you are referring to. Was it a shiffuch? Couples on a date would not be chaperoned. If they're old enough /responsible enough to date for marriage then they're old enough to be trusted to make that decision for themselves and to date on their own. Also usually people date closeish to their own age so a 19 year old girl is more likely to be meeting a 21 year old boy and a 30 year old man more likely to meet a 28 year old woman. I do think that makes a difference too.

For the man to go to the woman's house - are they relatives?

No idea about the converting money sorry!

The heaters is probably a gemach

@Elladisenchanted thanks for the time, shabbat shalom :)

Oh yes - have a happy and peaceful Shabbat everyone.

Shalom and thank you for your time and patience x

Many of my Haredi uncles smoked. The older ones with white beards had nicotine stains on the tache and often on a finger. Very few of my Haredi aunts smoked. I don't know about the younger generations. None of my non-Haredi relatives smoke.

I think (not 100% sure) that before we knew that smoking was dangerous it was seen as an acceptable way to help you stay alert during long study sessions.

In my family smoking is considered a very un-Jewish thing to do. It is forbidden to knowingly harm your body, so taking up smoking with the knowledge that it will harm you is on a par with getting a tattoo.