I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

@Elladisenchanted my DH told me that in his shul growing up, people would help members of the community find jobs that are shabbat appropriate and working for companies which are understanding. NHS and civil service are good options because they have to be equal opportunities and all that. Jewish owned estate agents, law firms.Also barristers as they are self employed.

@Elladisenchanted yes when i have my child, it would probably be different. 1 reason why I wanted one- my shul is not very child friendly (the service is very solemn) and I think i can probably manage to keep one child quiet (or just accept the 3 years of down time before he or she qualifies for the cheider) . I don't want to be unable to attend synagogue service for years (though I suppose i can dump my child with DH who doesn't go, but that would affect his/her religious exposure and what about breastfeeding).

Or i can develop a thick skin like my MIL who just schlepped her 4 noisy and unruly children to shul every week. Though to be fair cos it was an orthodox shul, everyone did that and the place was packed to the gills with children and strollers.

@Cleanmean I really don't want to get into the Israel debate because it invariably degenerates and it is always one sided and full of rhetoric, but if Ireland were shooting rockets into England and a 4 year old child was killed would you expect the government to be told they can't take any measures? In 2014 for example Daniel tragerman, a 4 year old little boy was killed by rockets fired from gaza. The 'little stones' thrown from gaza are rocks and one killed an Israeli soldier yesterday. The stabbings and terror attacks never really stop, there are just quieter periods.

I actually don't think they breach human rights in barbaric ways. A lot of what you see is media manipulation. There are pictures taken from Syria that are relabelled as crimes committed by Israelis in Palestine and the amount of that kind of thing that goes on is insane. The aid that is poured into gaza is taken by hamas and used to buy concrete for terror tunnels dug into Israel. Signs on the entrances to some Arab towns and villages in Israel indicate that they are Arab only and Israelis are forbidden and enter at risk of death. There are no barriers to Israeli Arabs entering Israeli towns and no signs saying they risk death doing so. Arabs are members of parliaments, doctors, nurses, soldiers etc. The blockade is on gaza alone because of the terrorists who come through from there.

Israeli soldiers provide humanitarian aid to Syrian people, taking them across the border and treating them in Israeli hospitals (operation good neighbour) , despite Syria being an enemy country.

But beyond that - this is a thread about Jews and Jewish practice and you are asking if we get a bad name because of Israel's actions. Why am I accountable for the Israeli government. I'm English too but you clearly don't see it like that.

My dad used to build up a heck of a lot of good will at his work, because he willingly worked through the Christmas and Easter bank holidays, so there was rarely any issue with him taking time off for the Jewish festivals.

@Elladisenchanted also being jewish has nothing to do with your view on a political situation. There are some fundamentalist christians in america who frankly have genocidal views on palestians and arabs in general. There are also Jews who do a lot of work in the peace movement, encouraging dialogue between israelis and palestinians. My orthodox SIL (the same one who refused to break shabbat in hospital) did volunteer work in palestine and she even lived with a palestinian family during her trip.

@cleanmean regarding circumsion for converts - orthodox Jewish Converts study for over a year before they are able to be accepted - they go into it with their eyes wide open! I think they are able to make their own choices. Orthodox Judaism does not encourage conversion anyway as we don't believe you have to be Jewish to fulfill what Gd wants of you.

@Desiringonlychild agreed

@Elladisenchanted I think 1 year plus is more for reform convert. i took over a year. For orthodox converts, i think its more like 3-7 years. my MIL took 3 years and that was considered quick. Theoretically you just need to pass 1 jewish year and that is the minimum requirement. But rarely do people manage that. There is a blog online crazyjewishconvert.blogspot.com which talks a lot about conversion (though it is more US centric, but London beit din is one of the strictest in the world).

This is a question I also asked of a fairly strict Muslim colleague (not as my opening question when I first met her, it came up in conversation) and I'd be interested in a Jewish view too, particularly if you're very observant. What do you do at Christmas? I understand not celebrating it as a Christian festival, obviously, but it's everywhere in this country. Do you like it, hate it? One of my best friends is Jewish, but they have always celebrated Christmas in the same way I would, but without going to church.

FYI, my Muslim friend doesn't celebrate Christmas, but they do take that time to have lots of family time together as they're mostly not working normal days. They have a big family meal on Christmas Day, but not a regular Christmas dinner, and she loves taking her son to see the lights.

@neverknown so its just bank holiday for us! A lot of Jews work, it's a really good one to exchange with a non Jewish coworker if you work in a place like hospitals where it has to be open over Christmas, so they do a Jewish festival and the Jewish person does Christmas.
It's fun to see the trees and lights in people's houses and I know loads of Christmas songs from the shops although the radio gets a bit tedious after a while. We don't celebrate it in any shape or form though here. No trees or presents or anything. Chanuka usually falls in december and we celebrate that. This year it actuallyfell over Christmas which is more unusual. We tend to go for a family walk on Christmas because there is nothing else open.

@Neverknown I don't have a Christmas meal because most christmas food is not very nice imho. I just have a meal that is nicer than usual. and we exchange presents because why not. No Tree, no lights. I would't work on Chrismas cos I work in an office so even though I wouldn't mind, no one else would be there. I am able to get the days I need for jewish holidays from annual leave anyway.

Muslim countries don't treat Jews well, that is a fact

Sorry don't want this to get political but just have to say that Muslims, Christians and Jews co-existed very peacefully in Palestine (a Muslim country) for millennia. The problems started AFTER the occupation.

@paininthepoinsettia not denying Muslims and Jews can live happily together. British mandate of Palestine wasn't run by an Islamic government. But you have to look at the countries ruled by an Islamic government and see how they treat Jews-Iran, Iraq, Yemen. Malaysia is nowhere near the middle East and even they expelled the Jews.

What occupation are you referring to?

@paininthepoinsettia my great grandmother lived in a city called tzfat in Palestine before it became Israel, under the British mandate. Her family had lived there for generations and Arabs lived nearby. I don't know what year, it was pre second world War, there was an Arab pogrom. She recalled running in to her neighbours house and the family were all slaughtered on the floor. There was also the 1929 chevron massacre where nearly 70 Jews were murdered and other incidents. All pre establishment of the state of Israel. This peaceful coexistence you refer to is a myth.

Desiring I am referring to the 1948 Palestinian exodus.

Ella I'm not saying there were no problems at all, the three religions co-existed peacefully (on the contrary to a pp who said Muslim countries never treat Jews well). I am a third generation Palestinian refugee. My family were forced to leave their land, their family, their wealth, their honour and that land is now occupied by Jews who believe it is their God given right. My grandfather would have been called a terrorist if he tried to defend it.

When my grandmother was dying her last wish was to have a small amount of earth from their land to be buried with. She had just given birth and was forced to walk to Jordan following the 1967 exodus, , with seven children under 10. Many women died on that journey, from thirst, hunger and heartache. None of us can return, so how do you reconcile that in terms of your zionist teachings? Not aggressive or hostile, just a genuine question.

@paininthepoinsettia you don't come across as hostile at all. I'm sorry your family went through that. I think there has been hurt and pain on both sides, going back a long time. I don't want to give you an answer that is hurtful or dismissive - your pain is valid. Someone said to me people need to see each other as human beings first and foremost and I think that's the most important thing.

The zionist teachings I'm assuming you refer to are the prayers and texts that are thousands of years old that talk about our hopes of a return to Israel. We have kept the dream of a return to Jerusalem alive in our prayers since the destruction of the second temple. These prayers also encompass the idea that this will happen in the times of mashiach (the messiah) which orthodox Jews do not see the current state as being.

@paininthepoinsettia As I indicated upthread, I am a convert. My ancestors actually are from China. My family immigrated to Singapore when it was a british colony in the early 1900s, purchased a lot of land (and also built a big house) in China, using the income they earned in Singapore and my great grand father planned to return to China when he became old (he viewed it as the motherland). However, the Communists took over in 1949 and he was forced to give up on that dream as they confiscated the land, house and would probably have executed anyone who returned to claim it. He died in singapore. We, the descendants have zero claim to that land and we would be astonished if anyone suggested that. We have never been or would ever hope to be Chinese citizens, some of us are singaporeans, some of us are malaysians and many of his descendants are scattered around Europe and America.

I don't want to downplay the need for a palestinian state. But the Jews need a homeland too. The state of israel has been around for over 60 years. It is a country with a history and a people. In an ideal world, we should put aside religious considerations and forge a pragmatic way forward where both palestinians and israelis have a state they can call their own. I am not smart enough to come up with the solutions. i am also not overtly sentimental. I think the problem is that people are too emotional about the land and not rational. I have family who have immigrated to israel and built a life for herself in tel aviv with her husband, she has rights too. We cannot correct all the injustices of history but we can forge a way forward. Israel is a country where religion plays a big role in government and I am unconvinced this is for the good of the country. Israel was founded as a secular state and it should stay that way, it should also do more to be inclusive of its Arab Citizens. But at least it is still a secular state and not a theocracy (which is more than I can say about other governments).

Thank you both for your answers. I don't think I will ever agree that the state of Israel is legitimate (as in it was fair and just) but I very much appreciate that you have a different opinion. Peace and love to all

@paininthepoinsettia I am sorry about your grandmother but like with many things, we cannot undo the mistakes of the past. We can only go forward. I disagree with the settlements, they are counterproductive to peace. we need to concentrate on what we can do now, to pursue peace and justice.

Thanks @paininthepoinsettia. peace and love to you too

Do you find that people who convert become even more enthusiastically Jewish that the actual Jewish partner? Ive noticed it at work when women are marrying in they become totally immersed their accent changes and everything. It reminds me of Charlotte in Sex and the City when she married Harry 🙂

I’ve noticed that in Catholicism actually. There’s sometimes a lack of pragmatism and uncritical adherence to the newly found ‘rules’

@EachandEveryone everyone has a different story. i sometimes think i never chose judaism, it was because i lived in an orthodox household for so long that I gradually grew into it. When you live in an orthodox household, there is a big adjustment. You have to know the rules of kashrut so you know what you can bring into the house. You have to know the laws of shabbos if not you would be very confused why people are staring longingly at that near empty urn of water . You have to know when candle lighting time is so you know when dinner is. You have to know how to clean for passover. You need to understand the rules that govern the home you are living in; if not, nothing makes sense.

Eventually after 2 years of living in a jewish home, I wanted to choose a form of judaism that would work well both for myself and my completely disinterested and irreligious DH. Orthodox judaism is not an option as it requires both partners to be fully committed. I also wanted a form of judaism that was welcoming to converts and egalitarian. I chose liberal judaism.

So yes converts probably do become more absorbed. We have to learn a new language, hebrew. Most Jews I know have had religious education since they were tiny, and converts are expected to have the same level of knowledge of a born Jew.

Can I ask what might be a stupid question.
From Friday evening for 24hrs Ish am I right in understanding that orthodox Jewish communities don’t turn anything on, sorry if I’m not using the correct terminology.

Can you have lights on a timer? And during the winter how do you heat your homes during this period of time.
Again sorry if it’s a daft question, I’m really enjoying this thread and am learning so much. Thank you to all the contributors for sharing their experiences and being so open to questions.

The use of a shabbos goy is one way:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy