I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

Do you go to mikveh after every period? How do you feel being classed as unclean on the basis of your natural biology?

@TKAAHUARTG I am not orthodox and don't go to mikveh every month. However I went to mikveh to be converted and it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I would like very much to go every month, but reform synagogues don't have the facilities- we have 1 mikveh for the whole of the UK and it's used mainly for conversions, even though the mikveh is a 15 minute walk from my house. You have a lovely shower before the mikveh and then you take off all your clothes and immerse bare as a baby.

@TKAAHUARTG I don't really like all this veiled criticism of ancient cultural and religious practices (know this is an AMA and you definitely have the right to question). Its like if a religion doesnt have 100% woke and feminist purist practices, it's immediately classified as 'stone age' even though many of those practices may not even effect a woman's prospects in the bigger picture.

Being woke and 100% feminist does not even necessarily make a woman happy.just trawling the Mumsnet threads, you would see that being a stay at home parent with an unmarried partner can be a humiliating experience if the earning partner cheats (you have none of the protection of marriage or claim to his assets) and and a lot of secular women do embark on this route. Your circumstances determine your happiness rather than adhering to feminist ideals. If being from a certain culture does not inhibit a woman from getting an education and getting a career, it does not inhibit a woman because financial resources is power. Almost all Jewish sects allow and even absolutely encourage women to work.

I would rather be an orthodox Jewish woman who goes to the mikveh and retains dignity through work and financial independence than a 'modern' woman who thinks she has rights but makes choices that mean that she is vulnerable. Freedom to do what you like doesn't equate to individual happiness and security. Sometimes, the concept of freedom could even be misused as a way to avoid responsibility i.e. man refuses to marry woman because it's just a piece of paper and woman is supposedly strong and independent.

@ Desiringonlychild couldn’t agree more

I’m Orthodox and have never covered my hair and don’t go to mikveh.

I totally respect people who choose to do those things, but I’m slightly concerned that people are making judgements based on the minority who are frum. Only a very small minority of Jewish women shave their heads!

@HavartitoMeetYou is it a minority though? Based on census, 2/3 of UK Jews affiliate with an orthodox synagogue. Of course many are Yom Kippur Jews and don't really practice. I would say maybe 1/3 are shomer shabbat/kosher. Of course there could be many leniencies within, some people may choose vegetarian option in non kosher restaurant. British Jews are a lot more 'orthodox' than their American counterparts.

I used to debate moving to the Usa where I would be more 'normal' as a liberal Jew, but after looking at synagogue fees, Jewish day school fees, house prices, xenophobia and trump, no thank you!

I don’t know stats. But I grew up within orthodox communities, and my mother lived within the NW London “bubble” her whole life, and a lot of this is not familiar to me. Not until I moved to Brooklyn did I encounter Haredi / ultra orthodox that closely. For example, I don’t know anyone in my orthodox community who shaves their head.

Like I said, I completely respect how other Jewish people observe our faith. But I don’t want people thinking all orthodox Jews do this or do that, because there’s a huge difference between orthodox and ultra-orthodox.

You all mention schools a lot. Do all Jewish kids go to Jewish schools? @Desiringonlychild you mention being a liberal Jew but being put off by Jewish day school fees. I guess I would have assumed that Orthodox Jews would send their kids to Jewish schools, but more moderate or liberal Jews wouldn’t necessarily.

What is the difference? Do Jewish schools in England teach the English curriculum? There has often been plenty in the media about Muslim schools, but I rarely hear about Jewish schools. I don’t even know if there are any where I live. (Northern Ireland)

No, I went to a CoE school because by sheer coincidence there was one 5 mins walk from our house and was considered an excellent and high rated school. It had a high Jewish population because the area was quite Jewish, and the only Christian content was singing hymns in assembly. There were also Muslim and Hindu kids in my class, so the school was really respectful of that diversity.

Jewish schools teach the national curriculum, and tend to get excellent results. They’re no different from a regular non-religious or a CoE school, except they have extra lessons on Jewish history. Many non-Jews send their children to Jewish schools because the quality of education is so good.

This is a great article about a school where some of my family live:
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/feb/22/london-jewish-primary-school-open-to-children-of-all-faiths-and-none

Ultra-orthodox Jewish schools are a bit different, but I don’t have any experience of that.

@JellyTotsGrewTooBig 60% of Jewish kids go to Jewish schools, including those who are not very religious. Jewish schools cover a wide spectrum but most teach normal curriculum. My husband's Alma mater JFS is the top non selective state school in London according to a few rankings and Jcoss (which caters to non orthodox Jews) was Sunday times state school of the year. Also yavneh college in borehamwood www.thejc.com/education/education-news/jewish-school-is-top-comprehensive-in-england-1.473097

Probably a faux Pas to admit it but a big reason why I consider Jewish schools is cos of the academics. A big reason is also Jewish holidays (Jewish schools cater to that) and also Jewish education ,(Jewish schools teach Hebrew). It is easier to raise your child to be a Jew in a Jewish school though I know plenty of Jews who did not go through the Jewish school route but do not seem disadvantaged by it.

From my standpoint, in London, the only schools better than Jewish schools are the selective private schools and grammars ( which I probably would choose for my child if my child got in). But that is a very unfair comparison cos state Jewish schools are all comprehensives with the exception of Immanuel college which is private. Some jewish parents I know do educate privately and there is a massive Jewish contingent in City of London, Haberdashers so even very religious parents do consider it. But as a Jew, If you want affordable education or education that doesn't rely on a grammar school exam, Jewish schools are a good bet.

I can only comment on the state funded Jewish schools.

Where do you suppose baptism comes from?

It's not about physical cleanliness but spiritual cleanliness. The mikveh is used by men as well as women, and you are physically clean before entering it.

Since moving from a more' traditional' stream of Judaism into Reform Judaism, and discovering a totally egalitarian practice, I realise what I was missing before. I felt uncomfortable with my exclusion from some aspects of Jewish practice purely because I am female. However that does not mean that every Orthodox Jewish woman feels that way.

@JellyTotsGrewTooBig I'm NI too. Moved back about 7 years ago from Manchester & tried to encourage the owner of the company I worked for to move the whole company to Belfast 🤣. One of my colleagues was Jewish & he said he wouldn't mind as there was a settled Jewish community in Belfast. I had no idea.

I know there’s a synagogue in Belfast because I visited it when I did A-level RS. No idea about schools though.

@JellyTotsGrewTooBig the thing is if you have a young family/attend synagogue regularly,/are quite religious, just having a synagogue isn't enough. Sure there are synagogues all over the country, but if the demographics of the only synagogue for miles is made up of only pensioners and you are a young family, your child/children wouldn't have many people to play with, there may not be a Hebrew school. Small synagogues can be nice and cosy but it's the same as living in a village- you either hate or love the people in it. There is a joke about '2 Jews, 3 synagogues- 1 synagogue he likes, 1 synagogue he doesn't go to, 1 synagogue he doesn't go to'. In London there is just so much choice, I can walk to an orthodox synagogue and a conservative synagogue, 2 reform synagogues a few bus stops down and my own synagogue in central London. My mother in law would not like to move to somewhere she loves like Brighton even though there is a synagogue there because the people who go to
the orthodox synagogue there are not as religious as her. In her synagogue in Hendon, no one would ever say they drove to synagogue or that they switch on lights or they eat anything but kosher food. A lot of them wouldn't wear trousers especially not to synagogue, most wear wigs or some sort of head covering. But a Hendon/Golders Green synagogue is not necessarily representative of orthodox Jewish women everywhere.

Of course, there are online communities so this helps Jews in far out locations.

I haven't been to a hairdresser since I got married as I would not be comfortable uncovering my hair in a public place and I don't mind cutting my own hair. Friends of mine have been and have asked for side rooms. A lot go to the people who wash and set sheitels. They are highly skilled - mostly because if you make a mistake on a sheitel (wig) it doesn't grow back!

@tkaahuartg yes I go to mikva after every period. The word 'nida' has been translated to mean unclean but I think your connotations of the translated word are very different to how I hear and understand the word in Hebrew. Nida does not mean dirty or anything negative. It just means a woman who is menstruating or who has finished and not yet immersed in a mikva. It is no way demeaning to women nor is it thought of like that by orthodox people. Literally no one besides my husband is aware when I am nida (unless I'm moaning to my friends about being on my period - it's not a secret!) During the point where I am nida we are forbidden to have sex, and physical contact. It's meant to be a time where you focus on building your relationship on a non physical level. You are nida after a baby too which is not a bad thing in my opinion as it gives you a period of time to recover before you resume sexual relations. It builds a cycle of abstinence and reunion which injects excitement and interest into a marriage. The only negative connotations I've ever come across are only from people who have heard the translated word unclean and projected their own opinions onto it. The mikvas where I am are beautiful, and clean. You bathe and are thoroughly clean before you go in as well.

Regarding schools, with very specific exceptions the ultra orthodox would only send to Jewish schools. Modern orthodox would generally send to Jewish schools but not always.

Schools range massively in what they teach. The school I went to and send my children to provides an excellent secular and religious education. The day is longer than in non Jewish schools to account for the dual curriculum and they usually have school on Sunday morning as well in

I just wanted to come on and say thank you for this thread. I’ve Just read it all and find so much of what you are sharing absolutely fascinating.
I grew up in the north west and in honesty never met a Jewish person until I moved to London in the late 90s. Driving around north London and seeing the Jewish communities has always intrigued me. This thread has been a really interesting read.

Ellaisenchanted does the mikva interfere with fertility when women have short cycles? If it becomes difficult to conceive, can she visit the mikva sooner?

Oops pressed post by accident...

So Sunday morning in my children's school is called cheder, and they do religious studies but usually quite fun activities and arts and craft type lessons. It's only for primary aged kids, not infants.

In my high school the day started about ten to 9 and finished after 5, although no Sunday school, and we split roughly half our time in religious and secular subjects. I left high school with 11 gcses and 4 A levels so I think the standard was high, despite cramming more in.

@Quillink honestly I don't know the answer to that as I am the opposite. I personally don't know of anyone with short cycles who had difficulty conceiving as a result but I can't say it's never happened. I doubt you'd be able to go sooner but I could be wrong. I do know that in Manchester
we have an infertility support charity who would be able to advise you how to sort it out and if mikva was an issue they would be the first to know what to do. There is another one in London as well. They'd find a workaround if it was causing problems. Or the rabbi/rebbetzin would have a solution.

@Elladisenchanted I believe many ultra orthodox schools charge fees? Also coupled with the fact that
religious Jewish families tend to be large so it's not like you can tailor your family size to your disposable income for school fees. My DH went to an ultra orthodox primary school (Chabad), I think it was £0-12k. By the time they got to child #3, it was quite tight and i think that was part of the reason she went to a non Jewish primary school which was free. Same for child #4.

Are there bursaries for the poorer children.

Thanks that's interesting and reassuring.

Sorry that was to Ellaisenchanted!

@Desiringonlychild fees are quite complicated but yes there are definitely concessions made for families that can't afford fees. I can only speak for my school but I know in my school people pay what they can afford and will work it out with the school bursar. Children aren't turned away because they can't pay.