I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

I didn't have a shidduch (well, obviously, because I married out! ) But I had the modern equivalent: friends of my parents arranging between themselves to see whose sons might be compatible with whose daughters. TBH I enjoyed it. Both of us would know exactly why we were meeting each other, so there was complete clarity. It wasn't awkward at all. The date was exactly like any other date: complete freedom to do what we wanted, no supervision and no pressure from any one. In my case, sometimes we had a second date, but TBH I wasn't interested in any of the men I met. Sometimes I'd known them for too many years, since childhood, and I just couldn't get past that! I'd say that in my parents' circle of friends, just under half of their children ended up marrying someone whose parents were already known to their parents. And most stayed married.

@desiringonlychild yes my marriage was done through the shidduch process. It's an arranged date rather than an arranged marriage which is a pretty big difference as the choice and refusal was always mine. A friend of both families made the suggestion as she thought our personalities would suit, both respective parents investigated and thought it sounded good. We met and got on like a house on fire and met again and went out I think in total it was 5 times over a two week period. I actually ended up half proposing to him which is definitely not the norm! It probably sounds bonkers to get engaged after 5 dates, and then married 3 months later, but I trust my parents' investigations and I really really liked him, I was physically attracted as well and I was quite happy to marry him. To get engaged to the first person you date is unusual in my community. Most people go on a lot of shidduchim before they meet the right guy. I guess it's kind of like blind dating but with a lot more investigating.

Chasidim do it slightly differently. They do a lot more investigating. By the time the boy and girl actually meet it's more unusual for them to decline. It's very clear in the law however that you cannot force someone to marry and they should always have the option to refuse. Their tends to be a lot of trust in parents and their research though.

For me shidduchim worked well and I'm happily married. I'm also very happy not to have dated in the secular way. It sounds stressful to me, you meet someone random, you don't know anything about them or who they are, or what they could be hiding.

The shidduch system is not perfect, and it is endlessly debated and discussed how to improve it and people still get divorced but I am happy I went through it. One thing for example that has changed is a NY organisation that was set up to educate people in shidduchim (I think girls in particular) on red flags to look out for when dating (signs of potential abusers), as we date so young.

@Elladisenchanted I see, thank you for sharing. It's very interesting. I think it probably works because people are willing to play matchmaker. Also I guess you all marry on the premise that the other half is a good person who you are attracted to and love would follow? In the secular world, I guess we do 'investigate' but we use our own experiences to test whether the other person is suitable.Which is why it can take a long time and yes there can be a lot of time wastage because often I think people are not completely honest with what they want.

Do you mean your natural hair is blonde (or you dye you hair) or your wig is blonde?

Yes @Desiringonlychild the idea is that real love comes as the relationship deepens and you grow together and work on your relationship. The initial spark or chemistry is romantic love and it's definitely important but the real abiding connection comes from spending your years together.

What is your favourite treat meal if you have one? My dad worked for a kosher butcher when I was little and was always bringing home amazing bread, cakes, soups, blintzes etc. We still visit the Jewish bakers on occasion for bagels & black bread. Knocks the shop bought ones into a cocked hat.

@pondypandy yes the eruv can be expanded, but there can be natural limitations. The Manchester eruv is only a few years old. Until it was established on shabbos we did not carry outdoors at all (beyong our own gardens and some small street sized eruvim).

People can and do holiday all over. There are different considerations. Most prefer self catering if going somewhere without a local Jewish community because its easier. We like to go to caravan parks for example, because it's cheap and we can self cater and clean and cover the sides. I call ahead to see what the freezer capacity is because I have to bring a lot of food with (all my meat and dairy items, and most of the snacks as well) and shabbos food and then we buy fish and fresh fruit and veg and cereals locally. We personally would pray at home on holiday without a shul but plenty of people would only go somewhere where the men can form a minyan (a quorum I think it is in English?)

I don't know the intricacies of other sects. There are variations within sects as well. Also we can be divided by practice along a number of lines : eg by cohen levi or yisrael (found in every sect) who each have their own specific laws, by hasidic or litvak, or by sephardi, ashkenazi and teimani (sort of an ethnic background which affects the customs related to how specific halachos are kept). Its complicated and there's a lot more divisions than that. Even within chasidim there are many many sects, some of the more well known are lubavitch, breslav, satmar, ger, belz, vizhnitz, sadigur, and sanz and they all have different traditions and practices.

@ikiboo I couldn't pick a favourite food lol that would be like picking a favourite child! Prob not much different to other people to be honest. It would be probably be something like chicken soup and lokshen, liver and onions (not chopped, the fried rare type). Or lasagne, I'm a massive pasta fan. Actually I never knew until a few years ago that people put meat in lasagne. To me it's always been a cheesey, veggie tomatoey food! And a really chocolate babka to follow. Although bagel cream cheese and smoked salmon is also delicious!

I could really go for an onion bagel with cream cheese right now.

I could really go for an onion bagel with cream cheese right now.

Oooh, yes. Would you be allowed to have smoked salmon with that or would that not be kosher?

the idea is that real love comes as the relationship deepens and you grow together and work on your relationship

I find that a very realistic way of approaching marriage.

the idea is that real love comes as the relationship deepens and you grow together and work on your relationship

DH & I we're friends before we got together as a couple so I suppose it's quite similar. We fell in love gradually rather than the 'Wham Bam' type of relationship.

It was the same for me and my DH, iklboo. We all change throughout life and our spouses after 10, 20, 30 years are different to the people we married. I think a long term perspective is wise.

Very much so @Quillink - for better or for worse seems easier when you've grown together.

@pelleas totally allowed. Fish and cheese is fine. Some people customarily don't have them together though

Lovely! Reading the descriptions of food on this thread has made my mouth water.

Yes, food is a huge part of Jewish culture.

For Rosh Hashanah it’s traditional to eat apples dipped in honey, so I always make apple-honey cake for my non-Jewish friends as a nod towards tradition. (And always have a big fairly formal dinner that day too.)

If you want to learn more about how Jewish faith and culture intersect with day-to-day life, read Jewish cookbooks. I highly recommend The Book of Jewish Food, by Claudia Roden. Evelyn Rose is another good cookery writer. I don't have a recommendation for a book that goes into the rules of kashrut, and how to carry them out, because I learned them from growing up that way.

Do you shave your head?
Thank you for this thread. I'm not religious but fascinated by different religions x

@carfiend No, I’ve got a pixie cut (which is a MESS right now) under my scarf.

Just wanted to thank you all for this thread, which I've just read and found fascinating. Half an hour ago I didn't know what an Eruv was - turns out I live within the boundaries of one.

@carfiend definitely not! It's currently shoulder length. I've grown it long before and then cut and donated 10 inches for charity before. I know a few people who have done that.

@pikespeaked the bais yaakov cookbook goes into some of the rules of kashrus I think but I can't remember if it assumes a basic level of knowledge. Happens to be the recipes are really good too.

Do you go to a standard hairdresser or do you have to go to one where there won't be any male clients or stylists?

My hairdresser is male and has a ‘normal’ salon, I’m not orthodox so not strictly observant and occasionally (but VERY rarely) have my hair out anyway. I mainly cover my hair for health reasons (which I’d rather not go into here) and enjoyment, plus the cultural connection. I feel good with a scarf on, it’s pretty, an identity marker and very comfortable.

For Orthodox Jews it would be very different.