I'm a traveller- AMA

[Pinkyyy]

I was actually asked on another post to start this thread, I've been debating the idea for a while but usually decide not to because I've seen threads like this turn sour before. Hopefully I can avoid that and actually provide information and educate people on a way of life they may well know very little about.

I invite you to ask any questions you may have, and I will do my best to answer them all honestly. I ask that you don't bother to comment if you're going to bombard me with racism and ignorance. If you'd like to question a common stereotype, by all means go ahead but I will not respond to those who are simply here to be hateful. I also hope you'll respect that I don't like to share too much of my personal details on here, so I'm aiming more to speak about travellers as a a whole and not so much about me personally.

So.... AMA

@TheKitchenWitch I'm not sure I understand what you are asking? I live with, speak to, socialise with and pretty much do everything within my community?

I think you've done a great job with your thread @Pinkyyy

Hope you don't mind me adding the limited amount of knowledge I have (and asking a question).

I've worked in the local hospital Maternity unit. I found that most ladies who came were very nervous/anxious. I'm not sure whether it's a mixture of expecting prejudice (and I will agree that some of the staff were a bit brusque - but they were to everybody) or fear of having to fill in lots of forms, but I used to make a point of going out (I was based behind the scenes, not in clinic) to meet them, introduce myself and sort out all the paperwork they needed/do all the writing in case they weren't able to. They were all lovely people and I hope that they felt safe enough to keep attending appointments, as the rate of complications and, sadly, losses of babies, is significantly higher with Traveller families.

I think sometimes it's assumed all people are able to read to a higher level and are simply handed leaflets or have big words slung at them without explanation - considering most adults from any background in the UK only have the literacy and numeracy skills of an 11 year old - I think more thought should be given to that for all, not just particular groups.

Leading on from that though, shortly after I met my first ladies in Maternity, we found that more were coming and asking for me by name as soon as they arrived for their first appointments. I took this as a huge compliment, but my boss (who was a less than nice person at times) informed me that I wasn't doing anything special, they had just passed on that somebody working there looked like 'one of them'. True, I had noticed a similarity, as I don't know anybody else where I live with the same colouring or face shape (not even in my family), but I was still surprised by her.

As it is, yes, my grandfather was from an English Traveller family, but settled when he met my grandmother (he was her father's stablelad).

However, ignoring my bosses' prejudice for a moment, she's not the first person to say something like that - I've always found Travellers to be lovely to me and most have said straight away that they think I am on first sight. (The reverse of this is that other people have been unpleasant, standoffish or very suspicious of me, especially when I've been somewhere rural).

Would you say there are particular facial features or complexion you'd associate with somebody you don't know being of Traveller lineage?

In addition, I've had comments about being good with animals (I am because they're nicer than a lot of people ) proving it. Is this just being friendly or is it actually believed that Travellers have an innate ability to handle animals?

So you’re in a closed settled traveller community? Do your children mix with non-travellers from their school?

I am also surprised about the literacy and numeracy skills thing.... presume you mean that the average literacy and numeracy skills are those of an 11 year old?

in which case is this a mean median or mode average?

Training as an Adult Literacy/Numeracy tutor.

The idea was to get people with the key skills of a five year old to the level of an 11 year old and then they'd be in line with most adults not in professional occupations.

One in 4, IIRC, have numeracy skills of a nine year old or below, and as it's essential to have literacy skills first to understand and frame problems, the majority are at least one level lower for numeracy than literacy - and about 15% are functionally illiterate (which is below that level, so their maths skills are even lower than that).

I don't fancy going into the shed to dig out my training materials and textbooks - sorry - but there's lots of information available online.

Here you are - hopefully that'll give some information.

(Caveat: this isn't an original source, but it links to them in the body of the article)

[https://fullfact.org/education/counting-cost-poor-literacy-and-numeracy-skills/]

I'm better at Maths and English than typing in the dark, apparently.

fullfact.org/education/counting-cost-poor-literacy-and-numeracy-skills/

Brilliant thread Pinkyyy. . You write incredibly articulately for someone who didn’t go on to secondary education, did you learn advanced grammar/spelling etc simply through lots of reading or did you undergo other training?

@Wordthe thank you so much!

@MitziK I think the nervousness is a mixture of things, one of which being talking about things that they find awkward to talk about. I think in terms of distinguishing features, there is tanned skin, long hair and often quite big eyes. I've never heard of any innate way with animals though. I'm glad you were able to help the ladies feel more comfortable

@TheKitchenWitch yes my children mix with non-travellers at school

@Coconutty thank you so much! I'm surprised how well this has gone to be honest as I've seen some terrible comments about travellers on MN in the past

@Jeezypeepers thank you! I've always been quite good with spelling and grammar (although probably not by MN standards lol) and the same with numbers, they just come to me quite naturally. I never had any additional education but I do enjoy reading up on things I find interesting.

Is it a coincidence that the Roma accent sounds like an Irish accent then? Are Roma travellers a different ethnicity to Irish travellers?
You've mentioned a class system and spoken unfavourably about Irish travellers- were you referring to certain Irish travellers or the group as a whole?

@BlancheM I think it's just a coincidence, it doesn't sound like Irish to me but that's what it's commonly mistaken for so it must be similar. I'm not an expert on ethnicities but I think they have different roots. It wasn't about Irish travellers as a whole, but I would say that the unfavorable behaviour most people associate with travellers tends to come more from them

Ime many travellers think nothing of swearing profusely in front of children. Is this normal? At dd's martial arts class is a gorgeous little traveller boy who is incredible camp & his dad sits on the sidelines & loudly says 'he's fucking running like a girl, he'll never do it...' etc There are loads of children around who hear this! Is this normal or a class thing?

Also, back to the toilet thing, generally when you decide to settle is this something that you then agree to in your mind- using indoor toilets, or is this something that some people are never likely to accept?

Is there any kind of feminist movement within the traveller community? Most of the traditions we would think of as primitive like not talking of periods & pregnancies in front of the men-are these likely to progress? Do married couples discuss details when they are alone?

@buckeejit most travellers will think nothing of swearing in front of children, it's not really a class thing but it's something that is quite common.

There is no rule against using indoor toilets, so those who settled in a house will use their toilet. It's just that people don't want to use the toilet in their trailer, it's a small living space and could prove to be very unpleasant. As I said earlier, not many people live on the side of the road any more so this doesn't seem to be an issue as majority have access to toilets on the sites where they live.

There isn't really any sort of a feminist movement, I completely understand how a lot of the traditions may seem primitive but there has been a natural progression over the years. I am able to do things that travellers years ago wouldn't, so things do change but there isn't necessarily anyone trying to promote any changes. We don't feel deprived in any way which is probably why we don't try to change anything. Of course, there are those who may want to lead a different lifestyle and become a feminist, they are free to do so and would probably marry outside the community.

Married couples will discuss things as far as they individually want to, it's hard to comment on exactly what most people discuss as it is done in private. Although I'm quite sure that majority never discuss periods as that is seen as women's things

I can honestly say that where I live we have had a few visits from those taking up residence on a football field, golf course & childrens playground - every single one has left piles of s* all over the place

@Jens303 it's unfortunate that has been your experience. If you have time to read the thread you'll see my explanations as to why that may be and also many other people sharing lovely experiences they have had with travellers

Pinkyyy I've only just seen you've started your own thread - just read it all now: brilliant! Thank you so much - it's been really educational, and you have been so gracious throughout

Where I'm from, we have a very large number of settled English travellers - the original family, the Messengers (if anyone on the thread knows of them) settled just before or during the war - the men fought and some were killed as a result, for the pp who was asking. They are C of E and have done vast amounts for the village for generations. They are incredibly generous, and there's been a long-standing family trust to provide affordable housing long before this was considered an issue- for villagers, not just for travellers.

When the matriarch died a while back, her funeral was huge - as well as locals, Travellers came from miles to pay their respects, and a local pub was very pleased to host them, as their gatherings have a reputation for being kept well in line by some senior members of the community.

I have noticed that the people I personally know are very dismissive about "Irish tinkers" (that's the only epithet they use that I'm prepared to type, even on MN!). None of our local community, whether they are settled or living on a site in vans, have Irish accents, so I am guessing that could be behind some of their hostility? Though I have been told that since Freedom of Movement has meant more Irish travellers coming to the UK, it's had a negative impact on the perception of travellers in general, so maybe it's because everyone is facing more prejudice and discrimination?

It's clear, when you read older books, that there's always been distrust of travelling communities, though - but I wonder know if it's driven more by the number of people coming into contact with travellers only in a negative sense, and not being aware that they're probably meeting plenty that they don't know are travellers too? Kind of like when townspeople have a go about students - it's usually driven because they only "notice" the ones behaving antisocially on their street, not the 20 000 who behave well. (I'm aware that being a student is neither an ethnicity nor a protected characteristic )

@UtterlyDesperate thank you for taking the time to read it You certainly know a lot more of the history and origins than I do, I found your post very interesting. Funerals are usually huge occasions and when someone well known in the community dies, just as you said- people come from all over to attend.

I think you could be right about the perception of travellers changing when many more moved to the UK. I'm sure that prejudice against out community goes back hundreds of years, so it will be difficult to stop but any progress is progress.

The comparison to students actually seems quite accurate, I myself have been guilty of referring to students in a negative light due to the habits of what's probably a small percentage.

@LadyGregorysToothbrush Thank you for that info, I don't know how I didn't know this!

Do you pay council tax?

@SlowNorris yes, well my DH does

Forgive me if this has already been asked, @Pinkyyy - but are the programmes like My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding etc a good representation of traveller life, or do they focus on and exaggerate certain areas?

I am fascinated by programmes that let people see into communities that otherwise would remain closed to outside view - everything from the Royal Navy, or hospitals to communities such as the traveller community or religious orders, or places like boarding schools - but I always wonder whether we are seeing the reality, or whether the programme makers set out with an agenda, and tweak the footage in the editing, to show the picture they want to show.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius sadly no, it's not a good representation at all. I honestly find them so ridiculous, especially when people such as you watch them with the intent to broaden their knowledge on a communities which- like you day-to-day are otherwise very closed. They tend to pinpoint small parts of the culture and blow them up to be huge things. I'm yet to see a programme about travellers that actually shows an accurate display of our lifestyle