I am the mother of a trans child ...AMA

[DoryNow]

But no bun fights please, I am not a trans activist.

Thank you for the thread

Growing up, I had a cousin who for many, many years said she was a boy. Had a ‘boys’ haircut, wore ‘boys’ clothes, did ‘boys’ hobbies, said she wished she had a penis, if strangers asked she gave a male name, said she was a boy.

Family were very matter of fact about it and just said she can dress how she wants, have her hair any way she chooses, do any hobby or sport, etc but unfortunately she can never be a boy as it’s not possible.

She is now married with DC and happy that she is a woman.

Do you think that if she had grown up now the approach would have been different and she could have ended up on hormones, etc?

Do you think the approach taken nowadays or the one that was taken at the time was better?

Dory - as I said earlier, I entirely respect your wish to constrain your responses to discussing your child. But that rape thing goes both ways. If you're going to make contentious statements which have nothing to do with your lives experience, then you can expect to be pulled up on it. And invoking 'not in the spirit of MN' is hugely disingenuous when you're playing fast and loose with the thread rules you established.

Rape thing? Good god - I'm so sorry. I meant respect thing.

OP If you don’t want to answer all the questions asked that’s up to you of course- you can always ask MNHQ to change the thread title.
I’m not following the gaslighting point you make though?

Thanks, OP, for your openness, and for what is a really interesting thread.

We just really wanted to issue our usual reminder that Mumsnet is all about making parents' lives easier and to continue to keep that in mind when asking the OP questions or posting on the thread.

@DoryNow - just wanted to say that this is an area that I struggle with massively (in that, logically, it makes no sense to me and I find it difficult to accept some aspects of it) but I do appreciate the calmness and grace you've shown in answering questions about your own experience. I think it's an incredibly difficult area to sometimes ask meaningful questions that don't tread into questions of a wider nature (ie see the recent AMA thread on the burqa). Your honesty and candour (and humour!) are appreciated.

Evening!

OP hope you are okay.

I read somewhere you're only ever as happy as your happiest child and whilst I do not live vicariously through my children, I can nonetheless relate to that.

You do your best, that's all you can ever do.
All the best to you and your family for the future.

OP, no real questions from me, just solidarity from another mother going through much the same. It's hard sometimes, isn't it? I hope it gets easier for us all, and some of the heat gets taken out of the debate, on all sides.

Since we are linking to articles and being astonished at the state of play in medical knowledge here is a review paper concluding that gender identity has a biological basis

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25667367

If you don’t have access to this journal here is a short summary of the findings by the press office of the uni of the researchers

www.bu.edu/news/2015/02/13/review-article-provides-evidence-on-the-biological-nature-of-gender-identity/

And here is a position statement by the endocrine society

www.endocrine.org/-/media/endosociety/files/advocacy-and-outreach/position-statements/2017/position_statement_transgender_health.pdf?la=en

littledinaco just the right approach, but I would maybe have fudged the can't be a boy bit. But each to his /her own.

At the bottom of all this pontificating is a family who have been to hell & back, and a mother who did the best she could at the tme with the knowledge she gained from the health care professionals she consulted and the research available at the time.

birdbandit sympathies for your awful experience but no I am not your ex, nor has my child been brainwashed by internet cults, although he did find it useful to get different experiences & views at first.

I resent the implication by some on this thread that I did anything less than my best for my son and would remind all of you who are trying to shout me down that you. were. not .there.

Would I do the same things again, maybe not, would I have started him on blockers if he were younger at the time, absolutely if that's what was right for HIM and we had all the latest research. The anguish of watching him suffer every month and beyond was indescribable.

This was not a fantasising, hysterical child but a child who ticked all the boxes, Persistant,Consistant & Insistant in his belief that he was trans.

Whether or not I agreed was not an issue as by the time we got professional help he was 16 and I could either support him unconditionally in finding the best NHS care we could get, or lose him from my life as he was heading down that path regardless. If I had rejected him I may well have lost him totally.

His misery was beyond merely dressing as a boy or taking a boys name, he was and is a boy. I know some of you can't grasp this and basically neither can I really but it's what he needed to do to be happy & numerous pysche evaluations concurred that he was mature enough to make that choice.

And he has never once wobbled in his path even though it was made clear to him on numerous occasions that he could pause stop or turn back at any point (although obv risks in later stages) Each step of the way saw him become happier, and more content, as each last vestige of his femininity disappeared.

Thanks Ministry good luck.

BooBoo thanks for the links

quate thank you

Mozzie thanks

Good night all.

"he was and is a boy."

In which sense was he a boy?

Psychologically? If that is what you mean, than what is the psychological traits of a boy?

What are, rather.

I agree that attacking the OPs beliefs are not going to make her situation different.

No one would facilitate this transition for such a young person, without entirely believing it is the absolutely correct thing to do.

My hope with pointing at my STBXH, was to show my experience as part of this situation. I really, really hope that your child is "fixed" and happy with their change. And I am certain you do.

But I really worry about the influence my STBXH, the TRAs, and the complete fairy tale approach of many folks understanding of this issue. And how this might have an impact on vulnerable and confused children's choices.

Just because someone has paid for a snappy slogan to be written on the side of a bus or other, DOESN'T make it true.

This is a sad story.

I find the world increasingly detached from nature and reality at the moment.

Sometimes I regret bringing children into it. I don't know where we are headed.

OP, you asked if there was a link between childhood abuse and becoming trans as it had been asked a few times - there was an expert in Australia recently who commented on the large disproportionate amount of transgender females who had experienced previous sexual abuse. Other big correlational factors being autism and non-heterosexuality.

I can't find a link now, but hopefully someone will pop up with one while I'm sleeping

Re Prawns post ("Regarding Mermaids, a couple of years ago regulars on Feminism Chat spent time supporting a mother of a gender dysphoric child. Her account of Mermaids was very different from that offered here. She told us that the other parents spent meetings sharing tips about private doctors and websites where puberty blockers and hormones could be obtained against NHS advice. She found it both unhealthy and unhelpful.

She left Mermaids but was pursued by members warning that without their support her child would kill themselves and that it would be her fault.

She said she found the support she received from FWR regulars life changing for both her and her child.")

A prominent mermaid person followed her over here and outed her on a thread. For the crime of saying the other parents were less than supportive when they clashed on care ideals. So I can kinda see why someone in OPs position would say they have nothing but nice things to say about them, even if it weren't true (which of course I'm not claiming it isn't!)

( although I initially wobbled at buying male clothes part of the learning/ adapting )

I found you saying this really interesting, Dory, as you have been very firm here about also saying that you reject gender stereotypes and the pink/girl, blue/boy stuff. What made you wobble about buying "boys" stuff so much?

For context, I grew up wearing my siblings castoffs, including my brother's castoffs, and I've worn a mix of clothes sold for men and for women my whole life - I think this is a very normal and unremarkable thing to do. I can't imagine getting lathered about buying anything from a men's clothes shop for me. Had you child really never had male-labelled clothes before? Have not you yourself?

Morning all

Thanks for all the links & (most of) the comments.

My situation and the route we took may not be for all, and as with all aspects of parenting you do what is best for YOUR child at that time, with the knowledge you have AT THAT TIME, to make our choice.

I do find it extraordinary that so many people take it upon themselves to disect the minutiae of our choices. I can;t think of any other area of parenting (apart from possibly breastfeeding!!) where a parent is attacked for their actions or opinions quite so strongly.

My child & I together,made these choices, after much up to date research, talking to current experts and exploring options based on unbiased current clincal practice. Together with the likely side effects, possible outcomes and future interventions. We weighed up the pros & cons and the implications FOR HIM. Along the way I also learned a lot about practice for younger children.

It is heartwarming that so many people see it their duty to bombard me with concerns for my child, and implications I am mad/unreasonable/ill informed/abusive.

Thank you for caring but really it is not your place to tell me what I should be doing with my child.

As I understand it the AMA section was created so folks could post about their personal life experiences, I have enjoyed reading them & posters have (by & large) had a good Q&A with curious but respectful interactions that frequently answer questions you've always wondered about.

That is why I posted this, not to enter into the wider debate which has valid concerns and from which I have learned much when visiting the relevant boards, but chosen not to follow for our situation.

based on unbiased current clincal practice

Just for the lurkers: on this issue there's no such thing. Professionals have posted on anonymous sites how constrained they are in giving their professional, clinical opinion, for fear of the consequences in the current orthodoxy. Researchers conducting essential research (eg studying destransitioning rates) have had their funding pulled if it doesn't fit in with the current orthodoxy. If you think the current orthodoxy is "unbiased" on this issue, then you've been sadly misled.

You find it extraordinary that people don’t just accept the sterilisation of a child as ‘just another parenting choice’?

You know MN is just about the only safe space on the internet that GC women can meet and discuss this issue. You know that the sterilisation of gender non-conforming homosexual children is of huge concern. You know that other forms of body dymsorphia such as anorexia are not treated in this way.

You are being deeply disengenuous.

Archery I know - totally emotional, illogical and unexpected reaction on my part at that time.

It was right back at the beginning, and as you say "male" clothing something we had all bought at times (I mean POCKETS!!)

Not a problem with any other stuff, it was when I picked up some boxer shorts for some reason that resonated to underline I was losing my daughter, (as I saw it at that time)and it totally undid me for a brief moment.

It is something that you cannot quantify or explain about the way you process all the changes and implications of those changes as a trans mum. There are all the logical reasoned factual elements to get your head round but then emotions can come over you in a total tsunami of grief. But these moments get less & less, & obviously everyone reacts differently at different moments along the way.

rivertam I did not choose to sterilise my child, neither did any trans mum who supports her child through this process. it is a side effect of taking transition hormones.

HE made that choice, with all the facts in front of him, as an adult and why are YOU concerned about MY childs future fertility if he isn't?

Who's to say he would have been fertile anyway or choose to have kids, many don't.

It is not a choice I would have made, and actually was one of the hardest aspects to accept as his mum, it bothered me hugely at the time that he might come to regret it in future life, but I had to respect his choices as an adult.

So thanks for reminding me of one of the most painful parts of my life

"based on unbiased current clincal practice"

Yes Archery the clinical practice available to me at that time, which is all anyone can do, any parent can do.

Just because it doesn't fit in with your narrative or what SOME clinicians are saying now, (many don't agree) doesn't make it wrong.

It is so easy for all you outsiders to sit on your high horses and spout theories and quote stats, lets face it you can get stats for and against ANYTHING but dealing with it in Real Life is another matter & NO ONE
has the right to tell me what I should have done either then or now.

IF ,and its a very big IF on the current situation, my son regrets it further down the line then that is something he knows he will have to deal with & I will help him. He could also have gone under a bus but thats another scenario we don't think about. Live for the here and now, life is too short yada yada.

But currently he is happy, healthy, doing well in life and forming good relationships with his peers and family.

So as far as this trans family is concerned, on balance, it has been the right choice.

Anyway work calls, have a good Thurday all! ]

Just because it doesn't fit in with your narrative or what SOME clinicians are saying now, (many don't agree) doesn't make it wrong.

I completely agree, Dory - that's the point. There is no such thing as a perfectly objective view in this. There isn't any "unbiased current clinical practice" at all, so you have to make your choices. You made yours, and that's all any of us can do - but you cannot call them "unbiased".

It is so easy for all you outsiders to sit on your high horses

I think this is key to this thread. I think, respectfully, Dory, you don't understand that many gender-critical women are very far from being "outsiders" on this issue: we've been thinking and working and living gender issues for decades. Many of us (me included) spent time as a child with a male name, we're gender-nonconforming, many of us are convinced that if we'd been 30 years younger we'd have been marched off to the Tavistock (or, as another current MN thread has it, be under pressure from our peers to transition when we wanted no such thing). We don't come into this issue as "outsiders" at all. Respectfully, you are in this issue as a parent, not as one who has ever struggled with this issue yourself. You are deeply involved, of course, but in many ways you are more of an "outsider" on this than many of the rest of us here on Mumsnet. This doesn't mean that you can't have your strong opinions, like the rest of us, but it does mean that you cannot claim to have the last word in expertise on this.