I wear a niqab! AMA

[JamTea]

Hi everyone,

I am a regular MNer and NC'd for this :). As background, I have a successful career in tech, I am a Muslim and I wear niqab too. Since Boris's comments, I've seen quite a bit written on MN about burqa and niqab, and thought it may be useful to answer any questions people have in relation to niqab. I also know a large number of Muslim women and have lived in various Muslim communities, so can probably speak from my experience and relay other people's experiences too.

Just as a note: I don't know any women in the UK that wear burqa and I have never seen anyone wear a burqa in real life. The difference between niqab and burqa is illustrated here: cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

In case anyone hasn't unearthed evidence of shopping centre goodies bans, since midnight, this is the intu shopping centres code of conduct, which asks for hoods to be worn down.
intu.co.uk/visitor-code-of-conduct#

I'm not aware of Bill Oddie being barred from their premises, mind, despite what my phone claims.

Interesting thread.

I grew up in inner city Birmingham and when I go home I see women in niqabs and burkas. I have also noticed a marked increase in little girls dressed with hair coverings ( I'm sorry I don't know the name they come round the face and cover the neck like snoods) and full length body coverings. The area i grew up in is very ethically diverse and has quite a few madrassas, I sit at a particular traffic lights and watch the girls go in.

When I was growing up none of my classmates wore any of this at all. I have to admit I find it tragic when I see these little girls in this dress while their brothers run around free.

When I was at junior school I used to go to Muslim households and play but when we hit 11 I was no longer welcome. The change was a total freeze out, is it common once girls are around puberty for them to be encouraged to be more insular and stay within the community?

I also worked in Birmingham when 9/11 occurred. I sat next to two Muslim women, who were my friends. The day after 9/11 both came to work with hair covered when they never had before. They did not want to talk about why.

I suppose I am asking if rather than becoming more integrated you think society is actually becoming more polarised and people use religious symbols at signifiers of status/piety/tribalism?

The massive issue surely is the fact that without niqab a muslim woman can still practice her religion fully, be modest and be close to her god. A Niqab and Burqa ban is not actually preventing religious freedom unless you think women in a hijab even in an abaya cannot be fully practising muslims. Yet a ban on these face coverings could help people like candy because their families would not be able to insist on it anymore. Women with black eyes would be harder to disguise, a woman not allowed to leave the house could only be concealed for so long.
I think niqab wearing women if its such a free choice and totally not expected and they see hijab wearers as equally observant, could also choose to not do this to help other women

In short she claims that all muslim women have free choice

The OP has said multiple times that she knows that many women have no free choice. Learn to read.

And the people calling OP a troll because she has personally not seen anyone in a burqa, yet blindly believe Candy when she tells us that most Islamic schools make girls wear face coverings unless there is an inspector(which is most definitely a lie) make me wonder whether people are just desperate to hang on to the perspectives of people that fit their 'all Muslim women are oppressed!1!1' agenda and troll hunt those who don't fit the mould.

Karma.

This thread is shockingly aggressive towards the OP. The tone of it is incredibly belittling, hostile and demeaning.

All these posters proclaiming their concern about women. May I just remind them that things aren't exactly wonderful for women in this country, and of course it's a matter of degree, but the way they carry on you'd think #metoo wouldn't have been so necessary or important. The hypocrisy is staggering, its not always great being a woman in the UK let's face it.

I also find this reference to 'other cultures' very offensive. People need to know that, these days, muslim culture is part of British culture. Muslims are British, they don't need to intigrate to prove themselves. They are part of the fabric of this country and if you don't like then tough luck - it's too late. I have to say that I think this country would be so much the poorer without them, the people i know are just so lovely and we are so lucky to have them here.

Domestic abuse and the systemic oppression of women is sadly a feature of every country and class in the world. Pretending it is particularly bad in one culture is not just racist but pig ignorant too.

So much of these so called 'questions' is just an excuse to attack the OP for being muslim. They're not here to listen to another perspective or learn anything. It's just nasty.

eye I hope my post is not included in your targets. This is AMA and I have seen an opportunity to ask qenuine questions.

I am also why your post has Karma written at the top of it, are you replying to a poster with that name? I ask because I was raised as a Buddhist and find it curious?

I agree totally that Britain had a long way to go before we can claim equality of the sexes. I do feel that religions are very heavily based on men being superior to women (yes I do include Buddhism in that). I honestly dislike it in all its forms and coming from such a diverse area have seen this up close with a range of religions.

Again, I agree domestic abuse exists within all cultures but often it is given legitimacy through religion.

No, not you at all, Opal! Some of these are great questions, which have lead to interesting replies. But the tone of this thread is pretty lamentable overall and I'm really disappointed that Mumsnet feels it's ok.

Karma was indeed responding to a pp who denied that the thread is trolling.

Totally agree with the other points you make so eloquently.

Can I ask a really superficial question? In the part of London where I often see women wearing the niqab, most wear them with a gold bar or a black strip of fabric between the eyes, like this ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1E.FRHVXXXXXUXpXXq6xXFXXX5/Full-Long-Saudi-Niqab-Hijab-font-b-Burqa-b-font-Islamic-Face-Cover-Veil-Abaya-hijab.jpg Is there any significance to this style or is it exactly the same as a niqab without the eyes being separated? Thanks

eye thank you for your reply.

candysugar had never posted before and then deregistered according to hebemumsnet so who do you think we should believe??

Hi OP,

Just wanted to thank you for an interesting thread.

I noted that on one of your posts you said you are Sufi.

I know that you are coming from your heart and with love.

I am for you, you are for whoever you choose; I accept whatever you want without any expectations whatsoever.

I wish you love and blessings on your path.

Om Shanti

Hi OP

You keep repeating that you do this because 'God wishes you to'. Why do you think an omnipotent being would care one way or another what women do with their faces? If such a being exists do you not think that having such restrictive covenants makes him a strangely tyrannical being?

I was brought up a Catholic and convent educated and spent many an RE lesson outside the classroom for questioning God's bizarrely ruthless and vengeful edicts whilst at the same time being told he was about love and forgiveness.

It always seemed to me most religions have always been in the business of control, particularly when it comes to women and sexuality.

How do you equate your supposed 'free choice' with something so bizarrely restrictive to women it could only have been cooked up by a man?

There are a number of religions in the world that make extreme requests of women that they do not make of their male followers. Is God a big misogynist or do you think it might be something else?

I see increasing numbers of females wearing niqabs (and a small, but growing number of burqas) in London and Birmingham - two cities I spend a lot of time in at the moment.

My experience seems to be:

Women in hijab - happy to make eye contact, exchange smiles, hold open doors for me, ask directions etc. I typically see young hijab-wearing women walking arm in arm in shopping centres, giggling, trying on shoes, buying make-up, sipping smoothies, generally having fun.

Women in niqab or burqa - no interaction with me or others. They are invariably escorted by men. No outward indication that they are enjoying themselves.

Oppressive clothing makes me feel sad. A real backward step for women.

candysugar had never posted before and then deregistered according to hebemumsnet so who do you think we should believe?

That fits perfectly with her account of her hsuband controlling her phone, doesn't it? I believe her. You should be ashamed of yourself if you don't.

That fits perfectly with her account of her hsuband controlling her phone, doesn't it? I believe her. You should be ashamed of yourself if you don't.

Agreed.

Candy's post saying that most children in Islamic schools have to cover their faces except for when inspectors come is so blatantly false it does call into question her truthfulness generally.

@JamTea A question: how do you deal with the rain? Typically your robe would be so long it would be around, not above, your feet. So when the weather is really bad does it mean you end up getting wet underneath as the water soaks up? A raincoat wouldn't be long enough and the water would drop off it onto the robes underneath! So how does it work - I've wondered this for ages!

I really don’t know where I stand on this. Every single person in every religion takes things in their own way and practices what is right to them.
You choosing to wear your religious clothes is great, it’s simply a choice that makes you feel closer to god. No oppression there.
However, some women are being forced to wear it. I really don’t like the idea of a blanket ban, but taking away your CHOICE to wear it might mean other women have a chance to break out of that oppression they have. Or they’ll never be allowed to leave their home. It could go so many ways.
Would you give up wearing your clothing to free other women?

I would like to believe I’m an avid feminist at heart. So I’m so torn between allowing everyone to wear what they wish, and taking away some peoples choice to create a better life for other women.
I don’t really know what I’m trying to say, but I’d love for us all to live in a world without all this hate (which won’t happen in my lifetime). I do think segregation is high, and I’d love for this to not be the way but I don’t know how we’d overcome this.
I’ve just come back from centerparcs and there was lots of women wearing swim suits that covered their entire bodies, I didn’t really think twice about it until seeing this but it didn’t seem as if they were missing out on all the swimming and if they were being horribly oppressed, I’d assume they wouldn’t be wizzing down waterslides all weekend.

Don't you feel anger at the double standards that whilst women wear the burqa/niqab or one of the other variants of an invisibility cloak that your menfolk are parading around in jeans and tshirts. Doesn't this mean that they are disrespecting their God and your beliefs and ultimately yourself

So disappointed that @CandySugar was hectored off this thread.
There are many posters on many threads say that they are long time lurkers and have joined to post something they feel strongly about. Why would this not be the same for CandySugar who is in a controlling relationship.

Perhaps this was an opportunity for her to have her voice heard.
I would like her to start another thread about “ I wear a niqab and don’t like it. AMA”

CandySugar said she didn’t know where to go for help, and in my opinion the OP was very aggressive to her about naming her daughters school etc.

Real double standards on this thread.

Candysugar was not hectored off at all. Most people were very supportive. Some people have suggested that her story is not typical of all women who wear niqab and that there are many Muslim communities in which this treatment of women is not condoned and would be considered abuse. Even though some people have doubted her story I think if she were to reregister under a different name and come back on she would still get support from both those who disagree with the niqab and those like OP who agree with it if it is the women's own choice.

Definetly don't believe candy was real and not ashamed at all.
No 3 year old would be allowed to cover her face, that's not real in any country.

There is nothing, no explanation religious, political or social which will convince me to accept face covering. I dunno, if there is a God I just don't think he would be that bothered about what you wear. Really, in terms of full face covering, are we really saying that covering your nose and mouth brings you closer to God?

Well you're being reported for troll hunting, ashamed or not.

#webelieveyou