I'm a Freemason AMA

[FreemasonAMA]

I will not go into some details, but I will try to answer as many questions as I can.

Catholicism is still the most populous religion in the world, I wouldn’t go singing a dirge for it just yet.

I was talking about conservative Freemasonry whose numbers saw a shocking decline in the past 10 years, both in UK and the US. It is not a shockingly daring prediction to say that they will see that trend continue unless they reform their view on women at the very least.

Back in the days when I was looking into Catholicism there were still a few who consider that the theory of relativity proves the Catholic Church was right to reject Galileo’s theory.

There is still a Flat Earth Society whose members believe that photos taken from space that show the Earth round as a ball are all fake. Some people can believe the strangest things.

I have come to the end of your questions. I hope that this AMA has been informative and interesting for everyone.

Good night. I will now change back to my regular MN name before I out myself with a NC fail

Philosophically there’s a difference though because flat earthers are not claiming that although it’s more convienient mathematically to describe the earth as a sphere through non-Euclidean geometry we can also describe it in terms of a plane which is more theologically correct. They just think it’s flat plain and simple. Not even trying really :p

I mean we know there is no centre of the universe and motion is all relative and therefore it’s just as correct in material terms to describe things with the earth in the centre or the sun - but the maths is easier if it’s the sun!

Feyeraband isn’t even coming from that angle though. He’s an anarchist (or was... not sure he is still alive) and a philosopher of science and the book in general is attacking the whole concept of the scientific method. It’s a good read. Feyerabands argument is against the individualism of Galileo.

Not that any of it is any skin off my back except that I generally love things that go against the grain.

I thought you said everything was the same as men rituals wise, sorry. And obviously that would involve exposing your breast. I don’t actually want you to write it down, just to clarify if the rituals are the same or not.

t's not elitist, people in those jobs can and do join if they are interested. There are many "ordinary people" in my obedience - teachers, pharmacists, retired women including an old librarian
I'm sorry but teachers and pharmacists aren't the ordinary bloke in the street are they? All those examples you use have all had further education. So if you have to be introduced by other Masons, the ordinary person would never get that chance. It is a tight inner circle of 'not what you know, but who you know'. You can't deny that. You have to mix in the circles that Masons mix in, to even get an introduction.

You have kept your patience on this OP, but by golly you do sound rather patronising, it's as if us mere mortals couldn't begin to understand the mechanics of masonry.

That was rather rude, sorry. I suppose if you have a poster trying to explain something totally alien to someone else, but for the sake of secrecy, can't do a tell all, it will come across as a tad patronising, because you're in the know. And we're not.

Thanks for answering my questions

Are there any stone masons, in the masons? Female stone masons?

I received a significant educational grant which without I would not have been able to complete my post graduate studies. I am now working in NHS in a very rewarding job and hope that I am giving back to the people.
Without that bursary I would not be able to do what I am doing. I am eternally grateful.

That's good to hear confuddle

Women Freemasons are no different than men freemasons. We have the same symbols, rituals, degrees, and we follow the same Rite

Ok, if this is indeed the case then why are there women only and mixed sex groups and a group that women are excluded from joining? I am not trying to be antagonistic here I just don't understand. If all freemasons are one in the same why are women not permitted to join a certain group?

Despite there being groups where women are welcomed I just could not respect an organisation that clearly supports excluding women from certain areas. Surely the aims/objectives are the same?

Maybe the reason is that men & women prefer to be separate sometimes?

Or is the ruling council, or whatever they have, forbidden to women also?

Mxyzptlk they very well might, and that is totally fine. It just seems odd though that there is still one group (or lodge I should say) that woman cannot join. And the women's only group only exists because of that restriction (in my opinion anyway).

I don't know, it just really bugs me (probably more than is necessary)!

This is all very enlightening, am enjoying this thread!

This is painted on a wall near my house- (from memory I think I’ve done it right) is it related to freemasonry?

@AmateurSwami I would like to know that too. I am dating someone who has that and it's not your usual decorative neckless, earrings and keychains in blue. Based on the industry they work in and the amount that appears in the work they do, I actually would love to know if there is any basis to it. It's also, interesting as they do the final work before it's out to the public.

@whosaidthistome ah interesting! Dhs cousin has started posting those symbols on social media and now I’m wondering if she’s become a Freemason too after reading this.

The only Freemasons I know see it as an excuse for an epic piss up. They are absolutely not about self improvement!!

we know there is no centre of the universe and motion is all relative and therefore it’s just as correct in material terms to describe things with the earth in the centre or the sun - but the maths is easier if it’s the sun!

Naturally. I think Galileo's point was that the sun is in the centre of the solar system - i.e. that the planets turn around the sun, not the Earth. That was and is still correct, even with Einstein's Relativity Theories.

Feyerabands argument is against the individualism of Galileo.

Interesting. I'll check it out, thank you.

I thought you said everything was the same as men rituals wise, sorry. And obviously that would involve exposing your breast. I don’t actually want you to write it down, just to clarify if the rituals are the same or not.

Rituals, ceremonies, symbols are the same. Degrees are the same. The goals, ideals, methods, topics of discussion are the same. They come to our meetings and we go to theirs. We (women) obviously don't need to prove that we are not women by exposing a breast during Initiation, though.

I said that because someone was wrongly claiming that women Freemasons are not 'real' Freemasons, that we do a "watered down" version of the craft that is nothing like the men's. It is just not true.

Doesn’t matter how small you make the space there’s still no absolute centre. It’s all relative. At least as far as current understanding is concerned - things can always change.

teachers and pharmacists aren't the ordinary bloke in the street are they?

Aren't they? Retired librarians and primary school teachers are hardly "the elite" (and that's what I was trying to say.

if you have to be introduced by other Masons, the ordinary person would never get that chance... You have to mix in the circles that Masons mix in, to even get an introduction.

You have to know a member to get invited to any members-only club, even a book club. I don't think it's something to get worked up about.

Doesn’t matter how small you make the space there’s still no absolute centre. It’s all relative.

It's not about small or large, though, is it? Galileo vs Church was about planets including Earth orbiting the sun (Heliocentrism, what Galileo discovered) vs planets + sun orbiting the Earth (what the Church claimed). Galileo was undeniably correct.

I suppose if you have a poster trying to explain something totally alien to someone else, but for the sake of secrecy, can't do a tell all, it will come across as a tad patronising, because you're in the know. And we're not.

If that is the case, I am truly sorry. It was not my intention.

You can think about it either way though. The maths is of course significantly easier if you look at it the conventional way. If there’s nothing absolute about location then to describe an orbit as one body going round another rather than the other way round is purely for convenience.

Funnily enough though for the whole discussion the first description of relativity was in fact made by none other than Galileo (but the Einsteinian version is greatly expanded).

*"Women Freemasons are no different than men freemasons. We have the same symbols, rituals, degrees, and we follow the same Rite"
Ok, if this is indeed the case then why are there women only and mixed sex groups and a group that women are excluded from joining?"

I explained the history in quite some length downthread and it answers you question but to summarise: Liberal branch broke away from conservative Freemasonry in 1800s because they no longer wanted to impose a belief in God on candidates and members. Around the same time, another branch broke off because they wanted to have mixed lodges. Since then, the liberal branch has numerous Grand Lodges under its umbrella, quite often several in any country you care to look at. Some of them are mixed lodges, some are men-only, some are women-only. Within the liberal branch, Freemasons visit each other's lodges whether they are men visiting women's lodges, women visiting men's lodges, or both visiting mixed lodges and vice versa. The conservative branch have stayed with their pre-Enlightenment ideas regarding women

I hope that the historical summary above answers your question. You might find the discussion upthread interesting to read. Think of it in terms of Catholics not allowing Protestants into their Mass because the latter don't believe the bread & wine literally change into the flesh & blood of Christ (transubstantiation), although they are all Christians.

This is not an exact analogy as Freemasonry is not a religion, of course.

I just could not respect an organisation that clearly supports excluding women from certain areas

Neither could I.

Are there any stone masons, in the masons? Female stone masons?

I would imagine so, given the large numbers around the world. I don't know any but I do know women Freemasons who are architects, builders, and developers.