I'm a Freemason AMA

[FreemasonAMA]

I will not go into some details, but I will try to answer as many questions as I can.

Can I ask if the thread has gone as you expected?

Have you read anything that's given you food for thought?

You say you asked an older colleague about freemasonry and from there you were invited in. What prompted you to want to join? Did she do a sales job on you, as it were, did she try and recruit you? (I don't mean to be rude but I just cannot imagine what would entice someone in. Obviously something does, I just don't know what).
Was there a gap in your life at the time?

Am I right that the conservative United etc one has most of the UK members of free masonry?

Yes.

it meant taking time away from home and family and putting yourself and others above your own domestic duties and needs and obligations, with lots of pointless dinners and time spent away from home when clothes have to be washed and children read to in bed etc.

I doubt it was as pointless for your grandfather as your mum thought it was @Xenia.

For an otherwise present parent, I don't think one evening per week is too much time to dedicate to the effort of learning, discussing, exchanging ideas and working on bettering oneself.

She was very scathing of it all

I am not surprised, if she felt that her father was neglecting her to go tell jokes at dinner parties.

of course the sexism in most branches is the killer for many of us women

I agree that the stubborn insistence of United Grand Lodge Of England to exclude women is indefensible in this day and age. It is worse than a men-only cigar club or a men-only golf club because Freemasonry is an intellectual pursuit. If women and black people are excluded, it is with the assumption that we lack the intellectual capacity to be Freemasons which of course is an antiquated and false assumption.

I can't blame the Freemasons in the lodges of United Grand Lodge, though. They get invited to "Freemasonry". They don't know that theirs is not the only way an that there is another, more modern and liberal way to do the craft until they are settled in the lodge and have made friends. Even then, they are told that all other Freemasons around the world who don't follow their conservative rules are not real Freemasons.

I would love to find out more about his time there. Unsure why but I am so curious and it really interests me. I have been told the grand lodge (the one in Holborn) records keeps for everything. Photos etc. Reccon this is something I would be allowed to look at? Or is it still hush hush. Top secret.

@Notquiteagandt I don't see why not. There should at least be some group photos that you can ask to see

This is a fascinating thread. Thank you for your eloquent and considered answers.

all very very strange

It sounds like OP that this thread has re-affirmed your allegience to the freemasons which, after all the comments of some posters who do know something, is a bit sad.

@Roussette You obviously have an axe to grind as well as a massive prejudice, but I find this comment particularly odd.

The few people on this thread whom you call "posters who do know something" are people who are not Freemasons. What they "know" is mostly dumbed down or misleading hearsay and ridiculous conspiracy theories.

I am surprised at the arrogance that allows you to expect that a Master Freemason would or should change her mind about all of Freemasonry because a couple of people who detested their fathers and grandfathers read some newspaper articles written by people who have never seen a single Masonic ritual.

The Freemasons was far far too important for my father, to the detriment of my mother and family life.

Clearly that is the source of your problem with Freemasonry. Sorry to be blunt but your father's shortcomings as a parent have nothing to do with me or with Freemasonry in general.

A new question from me: what’s your take on the French Revolution?

That's put me in my place then...

As I've said upthread, I can't imagine being part of an organisation that disciminates against women so blatantly in this day and age. And as I've also said, to even pretend there is no networking element to the organisation is an insult to the intelligence of those who haven't bought into the whole thing like you have.

Also, I'm not the only one on here who has family that was impacted by freemasonry, others have spoken of the same, they might not have been so persistent as me, but others have posted. BTW I didn't 'detest' my father as you put it. I didn't however like how he was so in thrall to an organisation like the freemasons.

Asking if anything that has been written has given you food for thought is not expecting you to give up what is obviously massively important to you... it is what it says... food for thought.

I wouldn't want to see a Masonic ritual by the way.

(It as my mother moaning about my father's father who was a mason. She also thought he bought food on the black market during WWII and felt he was also sexist - and to be fair I have cuttings from the local paper in the 1920s/30s when he was councillor, JP etc where he was reported and arguing that no local jobs should be given to women doctors as so many male doctors needed work and had families to support so perhaps she just had it in for him on a more general level; however despite that my father always felt hiso wn father was out far too much at constant council meetings, masonry meetings, XYZ board meetings - bit like being a golf widow really. Most people with young families are not out even one night a week as bed time is such hard work with toddlers that is usually needs both of you there pulling your weight. My mother also had it in for golf clubs too - she felt full of sexist men with petty rules with an over inflated view of their own importance )

The biggest problem a lot of us see with free masonry is the concern they would favour their own. I have seen it - people join, mix with others, get the advantage, the connection; now it's probably no different from putting work the say of someone who is from your synagogue or church and it's human nature but it was such a concern I think judges were required to declare if they were masons when they had no duty to declare anything else of a similar nature.

I am just going on as it is too hot to sleep here..... and I also thank the poster for an interesting thread. I watched that Sky documentary on a young mason or two or three of them which was interesting - one had to m emorise lots of stuff off by heart. I once briefly dated a mason and I remember getitng a photograph and guess what it was - not his penis (thank God) but a picture of an ornate chair in the mason's hall - . Did not quite work as a seduction tactic I'm afraid.... laughing as I type.

I think it’s a bit worrying that you’re so hellbent on defending something which is essentially nothing.

You clearly don't see anything but that doesn't mean it's not there. I have been explaining what Freemasonry is as clearly and in as much detail as I'm prepared to do. If you don't see by now that it's very far from "essentially nothing", I doubt you ever will.

Masons are and always have been a deeply sexist, nepotistic, old boys cult.. they’ve thrown a bone at the females who wouldn’t pipe down

You are talking about United Grand Lodge and their paramasonic group for Masons' daughters & wives, Order Of The Eastern Star. I said several times before that is not where I am. I am a Freemason, initiated into a regular lodge in a women-only obedience of Freemasons. We are not under the jurisdiction of the United Grand Lodge Of England and have no relations with their Eastern Star.

I don't know whether you just don't understand what you read or just want to attack for the sake of it, but please stop. You are wasting the limited time I have to reply to people with genuine questions and interest. Thank you.

The fact that you’ve managed to convince posters here that it’s a harmless group that doesn’t really do much except give toys to underprivileged children

That is not what I have been saying. At all. If all I wanted was to do a bit of charity, I would join the Lions Clubs.

I've always been in interested in the Freemasons, but I have a sense that there is something sinister about them, probably not devil worshippers but I think there is something weird going on there.

That is a normal reaction to the unknown, especially if you have heard of "sinister" rumours or conspiracy theories.

Have you seen or heard anything that most people would be shocked or upset about?

No, I haven't. Some symbols can sound weird or scary if I were to list them here, but all mean something and have a purpose in the rituals. I mean, you would be shocked and scared if you see a dagger in a dark alley but not if you see it on stage watching Macbeth.

I appreciate the answers to what I've said OP. I just wonder why the 'more liberal' parts of freemasonry (that it appears you're part of) really would not want to break away from the old boys conservative type of organisation.

They have, back in 1870s, as I explained above.

The "old boys conservative type of organisation" still does not accept women and expects its candidates to have a belief in God.

I've just been online and looked at the lodge where my father was. Picture upon picture upon picture of old white men all with the regalia on. No one diverse. ( Bit like Trump's administration!) Nothing has changed there then, they certainly haven't moved forward.

I'm sorry to hear that. I can assure you that the liberal branches of Freemasonry are opposed to sexism and racism and their doors are open to people of both sexes as well as races and religions.

you say you're not allowed to discuss religion or politics during your meetings. How does that make sense given the history of freemasonry is so intertwined with the religion and politics of the so called "enlightenment" era?

You are right. It does seem paradoxical.

It's not that we are not allowed but that we don't because they are neither here nor there. We are not there to argue about whose religions or politics are the best, if ever such an argument even reached a satisfactory conclusion anywhere. We are there to build bridges with our fellow human beings, with love and tolerance, and grow into our better selves, not to get stuck in our differences. That is why we don't care to talk about politics or religion.

If you have DDs I'm just not sure how you could explain away the organisation to which you belong?

There is no need to explain it "away". If I thought Freemasonry was a bad thing, I would not be part of it.

Where were you educated? The rituals sound a lot like my university traditions and ceremonies.

I'd rather not give personal details. I have not seen anything resembling Masonic rituals at university, though.

Is this an example of Mn dp having hobbies that no seem to know or talk about?

I admit that I think of Freemasonry whenever a MNer talks of her DH having a 'hobby' that can't be mentioned because it can be identifying

"If women and black people are excluded..."

Woah, woah, woah. We skimmed right over that and no one has mentioned it.

Are you saying that black people are not allowed to join the masons because of the colour of their skin? In the UK. In 2018.

Please explain because I don't understand how that can be legal.

wondering if the OP is actually taking the craft very seriously if she prepared to come on here and answer questions about it... having her "throat cut, her tongue pulled out at the root and buried in the sand at low tide"

Thank you for your concern but that is not quite how we do things Anyway, I have only given general information that you can find on different obediences' websites.

Do you genuinely not see that to all intents and purposes you are not a Freemason?

You are a breakaway group that call itself a similar name but as you’ve admitted doesn’t have the same “advantages” that the conservative group does?

Can you honestly not see that esoteric/secret nature of the United grand lodge means there will be deals done, backhanders paid, crimes gone unpunished, because people are not all in it for self development.

You might be there for self development but as this thread has shown, human nature isn’t so giving, it’s a lot more selfish.

I’m trying not to be rude but I’ve seen the police being called when someone leaves the pub to drink drive home. Number plate, route home etc all provided. They are back at the bar with their car keys the next night with no issue. Because they are Masons.

No thanks. I know first hand about Freemasons and have got nothing positive to say about it.

you’ve done a thread saying I’m a Freemason ask me anything, but you’re not!

I am, actually If I posted a photo of my Masonic passport, you would not even know what it is so it's not worth the doxxing risk.

You’re not a Freemason of the original men’s only club.

That "original men's only club" split in 1800s and now run in parallel. Your DP's side is the conservative one that still rejects women and expect belief in God. Mine is the more liberal one that doesn't.

I would like to think that you are the only person on this thread who still has not understood this.

You’re in the order of the eastern sun/star whatever it is... I’m saying the order of the eastern sun/star moon for all I care IS the watered down women’s version

You are wrong. Again.

I have said more than once that I am NOT in the Order Of The Eastern Star of your DP's branch of Freemasonry. It is quite frustrating that you seem unwilling or possibly unable to understand this.

I have been/seen/told all there is to tell because my DP’s tells me everything

I doubt that very much

I understood that the Freemasons also encompassed other groups such as the Hermatic Order of the Golden Dawn. THere is crossover between membership and that’s where the woo comes in.

Aleister Crowley was, after all, a Freemason and definitely lacked moral fibre.

Additionally, do the women get Freemason 20% off lunch deals in local restaurants like the men do in holborn?

is a consolation prize to be let into the order of the star, why not just let female masons into all masonry, not just their own specific order. I really feel sorry that this happens to women, truly. If you enjoy it again then I mean peace

@31weeksgone:

I. Am. Not. In. The. Order. Of. The. Eastern. Star.

There’s really no need to be rude is there... I’ve tried to be perfectly polite.

I understand YOU'RE not in the order of the star. That’s not what I meant. However, like you said the two original lodges run in parallel and I don’t believe that you get to experience everything that happens in the other. I don’t believe what I’m saying is being understood at all.

I was coming into this thread feeling sorry for you, but now I don’t.

Ps. BBC England reports only 4,700 lady masons in the UK. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-41804543

And as for my DP telling me everything, you can doubt it all you like.

And I meant generally for women that are in the order of the star, it IS a consolation prize. Really no need to be so defensive, I was saying masonry was sexist, not you...