I'm a Freemason AMA

[FreemasonAMA]

I will not go into some details, but I will try to answer as many questions as I can.

Why is there any need for an “esoteric school” in this country in this day and age when there are no restrictions to what you can think or believe?

Interesting question. You don't need to hide your thoughts or beliefs anymore, that is true. However, the master-apprentice method of cultivating minds through research and discussion is still a valuable one.

To me it implies that people are seduced by the way it may make them feel part of something special and exclusive

Perhaps. It still influences them in the long term in positive ways, though.

this can be used to tempt them into changing their mind on things they otherwise wouldn’t.

You mean like a cult? It is not like that.

Otherwise why not be completely open from the outset about everything?

It doesn't work to just say to people "This is how it is, go home and read this book". That is not how personal development happens. You observe, think, discuss. Then you move on to other ideas, and discuss those, too. People need time to digest those discussions and draw their own conclusions. Dumping it all on a person as a foregone conclusion is not effective.

I read an article where a provincial Grand Master says this about women and freemasonry..

If you read an article, it must be true

"Are women welcome?
Freemasons do not officially welcome women, although there is an Order of Women Freemasons. “We do not recognise them formally as Freemasons,” Gareth said."

I think this person believes that the conservative branch of Freemasonry as the only Freemasons in the world, which is not true. "Order of Women Freemasons" is not a real name but probably what he refers to their women's club Order Of The Eastern Star, which is what is called "paramasonic".

“I don’t know any lady masons. It’s a very small organisation.”

I don't think millions of people can be called 'a very small organisation' but he may disagree Maybe he was talking about his own lodge which may have been small.

Do you have a DP? Is he one? If not, what does he think about it?

After all, freemasonry can break up families. I just wondered what a partner might think

Hillsborough link
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/freemasons-hillsborough-police-coverup-ipcc-liverpool-sheffield-a7211906.html

yes it’s exactly that rouessette - they aren’t recognised as Freemasons. They’re lady Freemasons. sexist organisation

Your DP's branch of Freemasonry doesn't accept women as Freemasons. Your DP's branch is the one you want to call sexist organisation. Your DP's branch excludes women and has a "consolation prize" for them that is a watered down version without real degrees for their wives and daughters. Your DP's branch doesn't recognise female Freemasons like myself who are fully recognised, regular Freemasons of other obediences who have entire Grand Lodges and Supreme Councils of their own as "real" Freemasons.

Please stop spreading the disinformation that your DP and others in his organisation seems to have fed you on this thread. It may be the way they work, but it is not true of all Freemasonry around the world, or even all Freemasonry in the UK. You have never been to a Masonic meeting and your understanding of Freemasonry is second-hand, selectively imparted to you by someone in the most conservative branch of Freemasonry.

It would be interesting if you do your own "My DP is a Freemason, AMA". I would like to come and ask you questions on that thread about what you learned in your touristic visits of your DP's lodge.

Trapdoor signifies something like hiding and emerging as a new person

That is a bit of a misunderstanding, although vaguely in the right direction.

the coffin ritual is something to do with leaving sins behind

This is not true. I wish you would not try to explain a ritual you have not seen and symbols that you don't have any real understanding of.

I have to go now but will come back later to continue with everyone's questions.

It doesn't work to just say to people "This is how it is, go home and read this book". That is not how personal development happens. You observe, think, discuss. Then you move on to other ideas, and discuss those, too. People need time to digest those discussions and draw their own conclusions.

It doesn't have to happen in secret though. Take the bible. Some people will be able to go and read it and gain lots from it. Most wont. They'll hear sermons, discuss things informally with friends, read around the subject, take some time to think about issues it has thrown up. But all of this can happen openly without being 'eosteric'. In fact there were splits in the early church exactly because of this.

Thanks for continuing to reply but my personal experience mirrors other posters. The men on one side of the family were FMs and the women let them get on with their hobby but thought it was all a bit silly and they should just meet in the pub for a chat without the dressing up.
There was definitely an air of indulging a child who has a hobby rather than any respect for how their husbands chose to spend their time. They were mainly emergency services workers who worked shifts and were wanted/needed at home when they were awake and off duty. I don't think my generation would put up with it so patiently (all for the reward of an annual ladies night )

If only my FIL had become "a better, more tolerant, kind, rational, and intellectual person as years go by" how wonderful that would have been. In fact he was an intolerant pillock.

Forgive my scepticism - it is borne of experience.

Ditto here mishappening. Although my DF mellowed a lot in his later years, we never saw his tolerance as a family because nothing stood in the way of the freemasons. I am not sure what sort of personal journey he was on to make him a better person, even when he became Mr Big Cheese in the area, we never saw it.

I know OP you have said repeatedly that this is a different area of Freemasons but you can't disassociate from it. He was a freemason and you are one too.

Sorry bold fail on that first paragraph which was quoting the OP

My FIL was also a Big Cheese. He seemed quite surprised that I was not overcome with gratitude at being invited to a masonic ladies night, where he could patronise and belittle his poor wife even more. Yuk!! (Finger-down-throat icon required here - Mumsnet please note).

Freemasonama yes, that is all true about “my” dp’s Lodge, but you’ve done a thread saying I’m a Freemason ask me anything, but you’re not! You’re not a Freemason of the original men’s only club. You’re in the order of the eastern sun/star whatever it is.

I have been/seen/told all there is to tell because my DP’s tells me everything and practices the ceremonies with me from the books at home - even the blanked out words - shock horror! A man that actually trusts his partner to tell her everything.

By all means start a thread saying I’m a lady mason of the lady mason/mixed masons group, but is not the same as being the original old lodge.

Again, I’m not saying my dp has his own lodges version of lady masonry, I’m saying the order of the eastern sun/star moon for all I care IS the watered down women’s version.

I’m not trying to knock your masonry truly I’m not, its just not the same. If you enjoy it it’s all well and good, I just wouldn’t want to not know that amongst the higher up lodges and all of the “important” (I don’t think they’re important men, not even the royal masons ) think the female masons are twee and to be indulged, and not actually given half the rituals the “original” grand lodge masons are. You’ll find it out yourself as you get higher and higher.

I don’t think your masonry is sexist to clarify - not at all, I think the grand lodge is, and is a consolation prize to be let into the order of the star, why not just let female masons into all masonry, not just their own specific order. I really feel sorry that this happens to women, truly. If you enjoy it again then I mean peace, I’m sorry if I’ve derailed your thread. Happy Masonic rituals to you. Hope you’ll be very happy with your wand when the time comes.

It’s very odd that posters are projecting their own experience of knowing someone who was a Freemason onto the OP.

‘My DF was absent’, ‘my FIL never helped MIL’, etc.

Would you do the same if this was an AMA about being a catholic, a tennis player, or even a doctor, etc. and your only experience of these people is knowing one who you’re not fond of?

And thank you for the Hillsborough link, jelly.

It's hard not to project Scrumpy because I can't listen to how wonderful this organisation is, when I think differently, and even now freemasonry splits families.

It's not about not being fond of someone who was a Mason, it's about living and breathing the organisation through a parent, that's a heck of a lot more experience than many on here.

I'm sure if there was a thread AMA I'm a practising catholic, posters would come along and talk of their experiences, good and bad. Ditto with competitive tennis.

Love your name BTW ScrumpyCrack !

You say it's not a cult but realistically you must be aware that's what all cults say - and since you make people become member and jump through hoops to find out what you're all about it's very hard to take at face value that it's not a cult.

That’s true, Roussette, It probably would be the same on an AMA I’m a catholic thread. I just think there’s a difference between sharing your own experience, which may not resemble the OP’s, for the sake of providing another side to things as opposed to sharing an experience in an attempt to debunk the OP’s account of her own experience.

I’m using ‘your’ generally btw, not at all aimed at you.

(Thank you the 10 year old child inside of me sniggered when I chose it).

I know you're speaking in general Scrumpy. It is an interesting thread, I have to say, I haven't mixed or spoken to a Mason for a long long time, our house used to be full of them, my DPs were always entertaining Masons, so this is an eye opener for me.

I was hoping it had all died out actually, but obviously it hasn't!

It sounds like a really interesting organisation and I'd love to find out more about joining but a quick search through the recommended links show that the only lodge in my area is the Grand Lodge, men only branch.

Why don't you contact a women's lodge and a mixed lodge in London and ask who you can contact in your area?

Is the group growing?

The liberal branches of Freemasonry are growing, especially in the developing world. The conservative branches of Freemasonry in UK and US have a lot less people now than they did 50 years ago.

Are there likely to be more opportunities for people to join in the future?

There are still relatively few women Freemasons in the UK. I am sure that the obedience you call will be happy to hear from you

If a young friend or relative showed an interest in freemasons would you encourage them to join and/or put their names forward to your lodge? If so, why/why not?

It would depend on who it is. I would encourage them if they are really interested in Freemasonry for what it is rather than the material gains they think will come their way, and if have the maturity to benefit from it and follow through.

Can youive from one branch to another? So if you were invited into the grand Lodge but you don't like the all male aspect can you move to a different lodge?

I don't personally know of any examples and it would not be quick, but I don't see why not. You don't get a black mark against your name for starting out somewhere else.

It would be easier to move within branches that follow the same rite. Especially within the same obedience, you can just request to move from a single-sex lodge to a mixed one.

And also, how much has it changed over the years?

It has not changed much in our women-only branch since I joined, but it was fairly liberal to start with. There have been some changes in the male-only grand lodges under Grand Orient, most important of which was that they decided about 10 years ago to let individual lodges decide if they want to start accepting women or not.

I am not aware of any changes in the conservative branch that includes United Grand Lodge Of England.

Is there a lot of reform in terms of teachings or is pretty much the same as it was a couple hundred years ago?

The allegories, symbols, and traditions remain more or less unchanged. Some major aspects such as initiating women into Freemasonry and requirement of a belief in God have obviously changed in the liberal branches.

There are supposed to be no dogmatic limitations in Freemasonry, which means it should never freeze into a standstill although we carry forth the 'method' and rituals. That is the way it is practiced in the liberal branches of Freemasonry.

1. Are any animals (dead or alive) used in ceremonies?

I have never seen or heard or any.

2. The charity work to assist with girls’ education is really interesting, especially as one poster seems to have been the benefactor of such help. How does the lodge choose who in particular to help?

When a Freemason passes away, the lodge helps his/her spouse and children in any way they can including financial aid.

Our lodge favours girls' education in our charity projects, because we feel strongly about supporting the new generation of women.

Is there an application for girls in need of assistance?

I can't speak for all lodges but not to us.

Thank you for answering so many questions, OP. I’ve really enjoyed this AMA.

You are welcome